RDM Earrings need some input

[Icemage]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

Ah, yes... I forgot to add in the Refresh MP.

Yes, 47MP would put you at the 40% rest tier which is getting into the realm of RDMs who rest too much as far as Relaxing Earring goes which makes Magnetic better still.

To clarify your numbers above, this is what an un-merited RDM at 75 would be looking at:

Relaxing Earring: +2 hMP
Magnetic Earring: +20MP +1hMP
Base MP probably in the 900 range give or take, so probably +14MP saved from Conserve MP.

The difference between these two is 1MP per resting tick, regardless of how long you've been resting, since +hMP isn't cumulative in the same way that Clear Mind is.

Remember that regardless of race, you will get the extra 20MP from Convert every 10 minutes, so to even break even you have to pick up 20 ticks of rest plus one for each point of MP saved = 34 ticks of rest.

20 seconds for first tick + ~300 seconds = 320 seconds resting out of 600

That's to break even with a Relaxing Earring on RDM versus a Magnetic Earring (you could of course wear both while resting, but this is a side by side comparison) on a typical RDM.

In my case, I would have to spend 20 + ~414 = 434 seconds out of my 500 second Convert timer to break even with a Relaxing Earring compared to the Magnetic Earring. I don't think I can cast all the spells I need to in 66 seconds - do you?


Icemage

[Fynlar]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

If I have to REST to defeat something on RDM, I'm already doing it wrong, when I have 1200 x 2 = 2400+ MP available to me, plus whatever I get from a Vermillion Cloak + Refresh + Conserve MP in the mean time.

Nah, you just don't try to nuke down the tough NMs (assuming they are sleepable, in which case you definitely should be taking advantage of the fact you can rest, because they'd die a lot faster...), and/or you don't go for EXP chains. Not saying that's morally wrong or anything; people have different priorities, which is fine.

I come close to a 1100 Convert which isn't far off, but I still depend on my hMP build in order to maintain chains. It would be no different if it were 1200. You aren't that exceptional to everyone else, really.

Basically telling a mage that a hMP build isn't important is still piss poor advice, even if they happen to be a RDM. Yes, we don't get to rest in meripo, but the whole game is not meripo.

When nuking, assuming one has access to both Novio and Moldavite Earrings, then yes, you wouldn't use Magnetic on them.

You're right. Assuming Moldavite is a given, I would be using a Wizard's Earring, or a Phantom +1 (or Elemental Earring) if I wasn't using /BLM for some reason, in the other slot.

There are always better choices for nuking than Magnetic, Maggy is just taking the lazy way out. Not having a Novio isn't an excuse. Sure, you're free to go nuking in whatever gear you want, nobody is going to give a crap about a RDM's nukes, but don't try and say that Magnetic is a good earring for nuking; it's not.

/SCH has shown promise as a solid nuking sub for RDM which may cause some people to phase out Wizard's Earring, but you may not want to use that sub for every nuking situation, if you want things like Warp or Sleepga or Elemental Seal or whatever. Nevertheless, for nuking, we still want earrings other than Magnetic if you want an optimal build.

Funny, last time I checked, no matter what you're wearing, RDM nukes are still pretty lackluster. Nothing above Tier III, and the accuracy even with a slew of merits, an HQ Ice staff, and all the INT and Elemental Skill you can muster still doesn't impress even your most gimped BLM with an NQ staff.

Not only is BLM irrelevant to a RDM discussion, our nukes are what make the difference between a 2 hour Gration fight and one that takes about 2/3rds of that time, and that's just one example. Also, if you're RDM soloing for EXP (yes, you could EXP faster in a party, but people don't always want to party, and RDM does have a high burn-out rate) and you're using a tactic that doesn't involve throwing nukes, you're getting significantly slower EXP than you could be getting.

But while we're talking about BLM, have fun trying to solo Gration on BLM, as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's possible. I'm also sure they'd take longer to do it than me. They can laugh at our nukes all they like, but in the meantime I'll be laughing at their longevity.

BLM shines for solo EXPing, no doubt about that. We can imitate them but still not achieve what they can. On the other hand, NMs are where RDMs happen to shine.

[Icemage]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

Nah, you just don't try to nuke down the tough NMs (assuming they are sleepable, in which case you definitely should be taking advantage of the fact you can rest, because they'd die a lot faster...), and/or you don't go for EXP chains. Not saying that's morally wrong or anything; people have different priorities, which is fine.

Against a sleepable NM or other target, sure, rest all you like. But don't make Relaxing Earring out to be the huge improvement over Magnetic, even when resting, because it's really not. The cases where this really matters aren't very common though, unless you're doing something odd like sleepnuking Hurricane Wyverns for a skull or something. Against anything that can't penetrate your standard Phalanx/Stoneskin/Utsusemi defense, it's usually much more efficient just to go toe to toe, blaze up an Enspell and smack it with a Joyeuse or Justice Sword, or if TP is an issue, a Ceremonial Dagger.

I come close to a 1100 Convert which isn't far off, but I still depend on my hMP build in order to maintain chains. It would be no different if it were 1200. You aren't that exceptional to everyone else, really.

The difference between 1100 and 1200 is pretty minimal even in meripo situations, since more often than not I'm just tossing out a Blizzard III or Thunder III to burn off the excess MP, but it's the crisis situations like getting multiple links where that extra MP flow is priceless.

In solo situations, that extra 100 MP every 500 seconds greatly reduces down time, and increases kill speed.

If anything, it's the level 5 Convert ratio merits that does the most for me, as that greatly expands the availability of MP over time.

Basically telling a mage that a hMP build isn't important is still piss poor advice, even if they happen to be a RDM. Yes, we don't get to rest in meripo, but the whole game is not meripo.

hMP is fantastic for every mage except RDM. For a RDM still in the XP levels, it's still somewhat useful, but the truth is that our spell cycle is 150 seconds long, and you have to rest for 20 before you ever see any payback from resting, which means you rarely get the opportunity to rest more than a tick or three even if you're looking for the opening, and with such little amounts of resting time, +hMP has to come in large amounts for it to make even a small difference.

You're right. Assuming Moldavite is a given, I would be using a Wizard's Earring, or a Phantom +1 (or Elemental Earring) if I wasn't using /BLM for some reason, in the other slot.

There are always better choices for nuking than Magnetic, Maggy is just taking the lazy way out. Not having a Novio isn't an excuse. Sure, you're free to go nuking in whatever gear you want, nobody is going to give a crap about a RDM's nukes, but don't try and say that Magnetic is a good earring for nuking; it's not.

It's not a good nuking earring, no, but it's not as horrible as you make it out to be. Phantom+1 adds peanuts to damage with its +2 INT, Elemental Earring's +3 Elemental Skill is barely even noticeable; both are just as negligible as +5 Conserve MP.

Frankly, Novio and Moldavite are really the only good nuking earrings. Everything else is a distant, distant, DISTANT third.

/SCH has shown promise as a solid nuking sub for RDM which may cause some people to phase out Wizard's Earring, but you may not want to use that sub for every nuking situation, if you want things like Warp or Sleepga or Elemental Seal or whatever. Nevertheless, for nuking, we still want earrings other than Magnetic if you want an optimal build.

Agreed.

Not only is BLM irrelevant to a RDM discussion, our nukes are what make the difference between a 2 hour Gration fight and one that takes about 2/3rds of that time, and that's just one example. Also, if you're RDM soloing for EXP (yes, you could EXP faster in a party, but people don't always want to party, and RDM does have a high burn-out rate) and you're using a tactic that doesn't involve throwing nukes, you're getting significantly slower EXP than you could be getting.

I can't imagine why one would want to solo Gration since the Tatami Shield isn't RDM-usable, unless you've got another job that can wear the shield, but again, we're talking minimal improvements even from Novio Earring, let alone the lesser pieces.

And frankly, if a RDM is so sick of partying that they'd rather go solo things for XP than join a merit party (or better yet, just go do Campaign), there's something wrong.

But while we're talking about BLM, have fun trying to solo Gration on BLM, as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's possible. I'm also sure they'd take longer to do it than me. They can laugh at our nukes all they like, but in the meantime I'll be laughing at their longevity.

BLMs also have a laughably easy time soloing something like Operation Desert Swarm compared to RDM, but who's counting, right?

In the case of the Gration fight, it's not the strength of RDM nuking that makes the difference. It's the fact that RDM has a lot of survival tools (fast cast + Utsusemi, Gravity, Bind, plus access to Crimson Leggings) which make soloing that particular NM possible. The nukes just make the process faster; not easier.

BLM shines for solo EXPing, no doubt about that. We can imitate them but still not achieve what they can. On the other hand, NMs are where RDMs happen to shine.

Again, it's not the strength of RDM nuking (and more pertinent to this topic, the contribution from the earring equipment slot) which determines the capability of RDM in these circumstances.


Icemage

[Fynlar]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

The cases where this really matters aren't very common though, unless you're doing something odd like sleepnuking Hurricane Wyverns for a skull or something. Against anything that can't penetrate your standard Phalanx/Stoneskin/Utsusemi defense, it's usually much more efficient just to go toe to toe, blaze up an Enspell and smack it with a Joyeuse or Justice Sword, or if TP is an issue, a Ceremonial Dagger.

Oh, there's way more than that. Countless are the things I've had to fight where I can nuke them down easily, but would have taken eons to kill via melee. My meleeing setup isn't fantastic, but it doesn't suck either.

On the harder targets, while meleeing, the time you have to take defending yourself greatly detracts from the time you spend actually killing the mob. When nuking/DoTing, your defenses are simple and quick; Bind and Gravity.

For stuff like DC and below, yeah, you can probably plow through them faster with some pointy objects.

but the truth is that our spell cycle is 150 seconds long, and you have to rest for 20 before you ever see any payback from resting, which means you rarely get the opportunity to rest more than a tick or three even if you're looking for the opening, and with such little amounts of resting time, +hMP has to come in large amounts for it to make even a small difference.

I don't need to keep up any cycles if I'm solo, that's the point.

Solo happens to be where hMP shines for us. Or, like, things that aren't TP burn parties... yes, other things do exist.

And frankly, if a RDM is so sick of partying that they'd rather go solo things for XP than join a merit party (or better yet, just go do Campaign), there's something wrong.

I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Some people are tired of grinding Refresh/Haste, and meripo is full of idiots. Also, in my case, Campaign isn't an option, because it's just like Besieged; too damn laggy and makes my game crash, and after enough times of crashing and losing your EXP, you'll ask yourself why you even bother. Not that I care because I find Campaign EXP to be slow anyway.

Phantom+1 adds peanuts to damage with its +2 INT, Elemental Earring's +3 Elemental Skill is barely even noticeable

3 skill for RDM isn't "barely noticeable". Wizard's isn't much better than that and I definitely notice its +5 skill.

both are just as negligible as +5 Conserve MP.

INT is a constant boost to damage, it is guaranteed to boost your nuking, unlike Magnetic which only has a small chance at saving you some MP, and even if it works it's not guaranteed to save you an amount of MP substantial enough for you to actually make use of it. Constant effects > unreliable ones. Don't roll them up into the same category.

In the case of the Gration fight, it's not the strength of RDM nuking that makes the difference. It's the fact that RDM has a lot of survival tools (fast cast + Utsusemi, Gravity, Bind, plus access to Crimson Leggings) which make soloing that particular NM possible. The nukes just make the process faster; not easier.

I'm not saying the nukes make it possible. I'm saying that our nukes are not so weak that you may as well just say "who cares lol, blm nukes r bettar!11", when our lolRDM nukes can cut an approx. 2 hour solo fight down to 70-80 minutes or so. Our main benefit is actually being able to throw a lot more nukes than BLM can in this particular instance thanks to Refresh and Convert (like I said, better longevity). In order for BLM to do any nukes at all while still maintaining Bio 2, they pretty much have to use juices. RDM needs no consumables.

I can't imagine why one would want to solo Gration since the Tatami Shield isn't RDM-usable, unless you've got another job that can wear the shield, but again, we're talking minimal improvements even from Novio Earring, let alone the lesser pieces.

Gils, and friends. I've soloed it about 30 times by now and still do every so often. Also, those "peanuts" add up; that is the only reason why we bother equipping ourselves at all.

[Sabaron]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

You realize, of course, that there are now 2 pages of dialogue on the effectiveness of an earring that gives +2 hMP right?

[Icemage]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

All I can say at this point is that 1 stack of mulsum = 120MP total, costs relatively little, and generates way more MP in much less time than you'll ever get from wearing a Relaxing Earring in even most solo situations when resting.

Seriously, even with the best earrings, the differences are extremely small; you have to stack a LOT of such differences together to see any tangible change in performance. Actually you can expand that definition to about 95% of the gear that people think is "great".


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

INT is a constant boost to damage, it is guaranteed to boost your nuking, unlike Magnetic which only has a small chance at saving you some MP, and even if it works it's not guaranteed to save you an amount of MP substantial enough for you to actually make use of it.

So, about not nuking in Magnetic Earring, and use INT instead. (Moldavite assumed for the other ear slot.):

Assuming middling INT to start with, each additional INT brings up the base damage of Tier III single-target nuke by 1.5. (Once above a certain point, each additional INT would only give 0.75 additional base damage.)

The discussion is about INT+2 in the ear slot or something, then? That's +3 to base damage.

Assuming no Magic Defense Bonus (i.e. MDB = 1.0) and no Target Magic Damage Adjustment, in a solo (i.e. non-MB) scenario you can get the following multipliers:

No Resist: 1.0
HQ Staff Bonus: 1.15
Day of Week Bonus: 1.1
Double Weather: 1.25
Magic Attack Bonus: 1.40 (1.24 from MAB II trait, then MAB+16 from gears--obviously will vary from player to player)

Total muplier: 1.0 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.25 * 1.40 = ~2.21

Total increase to damage from INT+2 (under incredibly good scenario):
3 * 2.31 = 6.

So, INT+2 means about 6~7 points extra damage from every nuke under the ideal scenario, depending on the MAB gear used. (Also assuming sea obi, of course.)

I'm not saying the nukes make it possible. I'm saying that our nukes are not so weak that you may as well just say "who cares lol, blm nukes r bettar!11"

Whether RDM nukes are weak or not, INT+2 (or even +3) isn't really a deal breaker when it comes to Tier III nuke, unless it makes the difference between positive and negative dINT.

Or, if I may, the effect of gaining INT in the ear slots is so minor, it's practically placebo.

Constant effects > unreliable ones.

Nuking is highly susceptible to partial resists, is it not? The effect of nuking is unreliable, if looked at individually.

In fact, most things RDMs can do to worthwhile enemies are not 100% reliable, aside from perhaps Dia and Bio. Probably shouldn't stop you from trying Slow II on strong monsters, though.

[Makomage]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

I use a wide variety of earrings mainly dependant on what the spell is and what my sub is, All of these should be available to you at your current level

Insomnia Earring (resting or convert)
Anti-Venom (generally static but also convert)
Geist (for Mnd based enfeebles, cures, stoneskin)
Morion (nuking, Int based enfeebles)
Moldavite Earring (Nuking, elemental Blm enfeebles and Weapon skills - when I'm soloing)

I should mention that the Moldy is either a piece of cake or a total nightmare to obtain - some people are 1/1, I was 1/12 after 2 days of almost constant camping - popular NM, lowish drop rate and aggro for lv65's and under

Other options are the Phantom +1, the elemental and enfeebling earrings though the cost of these is very high on my server so I cant comment. I suspect that it's probably more important as you get closer to 75 and endgame - capped enfeebling skill and matching the spell to the appropriate elemental staves have served me well in 99.9% of situations up to 65 - certainly on exp pt mobs.

I was using a reraise earring but have changed over to a reraise hairpin slightly more expensive but raise 2 is worth it.

[Tsrwedge]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

Moldavite Earring (Nuking, elemental Blm enfeebles and Weapon skills - when I'm soloing)

(emphasis added)

Why on Vana'diel would you use a MAB earring for a spell that isn't affected by MAB?

[Sabaron]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

Other options are the Phantom +1, the elemental and enfeebling earrings though the cost of these is very high on my server so I cant comment. I suspect that it's probably more important as you get closer to 75 and endgame - capped enfeebling skill and matching the spell to the appropriate elemental staves have served me well in 99.9% of situations up to 65 - certainly on exp pt mobs.

Those two earrings are +3 Skill earrings and provide you with about 2.7% Magic Accuracy on their respective spells. By contrast, paying to upgrade your Wind Staff to an Auster's gives you an extra 5%. The earrings, however, affect a wide variety of spells based on skill, but the Staves affect them based on element. The HQ Staff collection is very expensive just like the earrings, but more effective "per spell" than the earring.

On Asura, I could do Terra's, Austers's, and Pluto's staves for the same price as Enfeebling earring and get 5% effect on Slow, Silence, and Blind. Aquilo's on Asura is only 170,000 so quite a bargain. I would say your best bet is to upgrade staves first because of the huge price tag that you usually find on Enfeebling earring which is about 1.6 mil on Asura. Popular HQ staves by contrast are around 500k-600k. Elemental earring is 600k. Just another reason to make your ears the last slot you look at.

[Karinya]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

Maybe in typical TP burn parties you don't get to rest, but saying you never need to rest at all in any situation and therefore need to pay no attention to hMP gear is a bit of a stretch. It's also quite inadvisable as far as being a mage goes.

Yeah: every RDM should have at least 15 points of hMP gear. Because you can get that in TWO SLOTS, using equipment that you'll want to have anyway for its other bonuses:
Pluto Staff or Dark Staff
Warlock's Tabard +1 or Yigit Gomlek or Errant Houppelande

With that plus your clear mind you already start resting for over 30 per tick (plus refresh, refresh gear and sanction/sigil - and you can also use an hMP food if you think it's warranted). The effect of a +1 or 2 hMP difference in your earrings is well beyond trivial at that point. (And I didn't even count the very cheap Hierarch Belt, which you'll also probably want to have regardless of your earring choices - assuming you don't have Duelist's Belt.)

Earrings with tiny amounts of hMP may be good for jobs that spend *lots* of time resting; they're not so good for a job that spends a few ticks resting per 10 minutes (if that).

And anyone who isn't using third party programs is not going to be swapping earrings for every spell they cast: there are far more important slots to swap with the 5 lines in each spell macro. Even if you're only swapping between rest gear and casting gear, earrings probably don't make the top 6.

The one earring I would suggest that hasn't already appeared in this thread: if you do any significant amount of Dynamis and/or Apollyon, get Diabolos's Earring. Free, and the magic accuracy applies to all your (resistable) spells while you're in the applicable weather (which is always, in those zones). As a nice bonus, it also provides +3 acc for soloing, or any melee jobs you may happen to level.

BTW, Loquacious and Magnetic are the only earrings I can think of that help (slightly) with the *other* side of RDM: nonresistable spells like refresh, haste, cures, etc. Any spell can benefit from fast cast and conserve MP, even if only slightly. So it's all the *other* choices that are the situational earrings.

[Makomage]

Re: RDM Earrings need some input

Those two earrings are +3 Skill earrings and provide you with about 2.7% Magic Accuracy on their respective spells. By contrast, paying to upgrade your Wind Staff to an Auster's gives you an extra 5%. The earrings, however, affect a wide variety of spells based on skill, but the Staves affect them based on element. The HQ Staff collection is very expensive just like the earrings, but more effective "per spell" than the earring.

On Asura, I could do Terra's, Austers's, and Pluto's staves for the same price as Enfeebling earring and get 5% effect on Slow, Silence, and Blind. Aquilo's on Asura is only 170,000 so quite a bargain. I would say your best bet is to upgrade staves first because of the huge price tag that you usually find on Enfeebling earring which is about 1.6 mil on Asura. Popular HQ staves by contrast are around 500k-600k. Elemental earring is 600k. Just another reason to make your ears the last slot you look at.

Thanks for the heads up on the HQ's Sabaron I'm looking to upgrade for my Maat fight, this info helps a lot