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  • Re: rdm as DD?

    OK, then. I made some statements earlier that I'd like to show some proof of.



    When you can show me a melee RDM who can pull this off, perhaps we can talk about how "good" melee RDM is in XP parties compared to backlining.


    Icemage

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    • Re: rdm as DD?

      >_>;

      I'd like the experience that... The best party I've ever had was only chain#110 on Greater Colibri.

      Would be nice to take care of all my remaining Red Mage specific merits in day or two.
      Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
      yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
      Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
      leaving no trace in the water.

      - Mugaku

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      • Re: rdm as DD?

        ^ the above party, I accumulated a little over 41K limit points in ~1.75 hours. 22.8K per hour, no XP rings used, with no Corsair, and a weak Candescence in effect. BRD BRD RDM WAR MNK WAR setup, camped in the middle of the Skoffins near the Mamool Ja Staging point.

        At one point, we got wind weather and were chaining the Air Elementals, which was a good laugh.


        Icemage

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        • Re: rdm as DD?

          Originally posted by Icemage View Post
          True, though you'll gain TP faster with a single-wielded Joyeuse than Blau Dolch/Joyeuse, due to Dual Wield's effect on TP gain.

          Dual Wielded Blau/Joy has a base TP gain of 4.8 TP per hit with Suppanomimi.

          Single wielded Joyeuse has a base TP gain of 6.0 TP per hit.


          The speed difference is right about 14%. The TP/hit difference is about 20%. That's so narrow a difference that a lot of the time it won't matter.
          Last edited by arkaine23; 02-04-2008, 04:00 AM.
          Madrone Hume Female Leviathan Server
          75: RDM MNK BLM PLD BRD subs: NIN WAR DRK BLU WHM SCH DNC RNG
          AF+1 16/25, AF2 9/25, Nashira 1/5, Crimson 3/5, Pln 2/5, Yigit 5/5, Zenith 3/5, Shura 3/5, Askar 1/5, Goliard 2/5, Homam 2/5
          Merits 384/506, Bastok rank 10, Merc rank 10

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          • Re: rdm as DD?

            Originally posted by arkaine23 View Post
            The speed difference is right about 14%. The TP/hit difference is about 20%. That's so narrow a difference that a lot of the time it won't matter.
            Considering all the things you have to manange on top of melee, I think its a rather large gap. I know how gummed up RDM melee can be thanks to its responsibilities by firsthand experience, but also as COR I have to stop once a minute to buff someone and the amount of time that takes is variable. If I want to crank out a Slugshot or Detonator each fight, I need the 100% TP the quickest way I can. I usually am completely left out of the Haste cycle, too, few RDMs and WHMs spare me a haste, so single-wield Joyuse has proven to often be the way to go.

            RDM can't really put itself at the top of the Haste Cycle, even when they do melee, unless they don't want to keep thier slot in PT.

            I think the question in a lot of people's minds is this: Can RDM do all its invited for and melee for 100% TP and WS each fight?

            Ultimately, I know the intention beind this DW combo is to build for Eviceration, but you're only gonna do it half the fights and living in a community where anything less than 95% fails.

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            • Re: rdm as DD?

              Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
              Ultimately, I know the intention beind this DW combo is to build for Eviceration, but you're only gonna do it half the fights and living in a community where anything less than 95% fails.
              If a RDM is covering all his duty in party, and melee, the extra damage is a bonus--call it a 105% effort?

              Calling a 105% effort a failure is rather harsh.
              Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
              yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
              Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
              leaving no trace in the water.

              - Mugaku

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              • Re: rdm as DD?

                Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                If a RDM is covering all his duty in party, and melee, the extra damage is a bonus--call it a 105% effort?

                Calling a 105% effort a failure is rather harsh.
                If it can be done it is a 105% effort. 105% effort is not possible therefore ...
                I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are.

                HTTP Error 418 - I'm A Teapot - The resulting entity body MAY be short and stout.

                loose

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                • Re: rdm as DD?

                  Originally posted by Mhurron View Post
                  If it can be done it is a 105% effort. 105% effort is not possible therefore ...
                  Pffft I parse 112% effort in meripo easily, 123% on a good day.
                  Callysto of RamuhCaithsith - 75 RDM / BRD / COR / PLD / WAR / SCH / DRK

                  Formerly Callisto of Ramuh. | Retired 5.28.10

                  Callisto Broadwurst of Palamecia

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                  • Re: rdm as DD?

                    Originally posted by Callisto View Post
                    Pffft I parse 112% effort in meripo easily, 123% on a good day.
                    Let's see the screenshot of your 200+ limit chain in meripo, then. If melee works as well as you say, and you're putting out more than my 100% effort, you should be able to do better than I did above, right?


                    Icemage

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                    • Re: rdm as DD?

                      You know, >_> Only reason why I would DD as rdm is because I hate getting parties that wants to chain that high. Its boring, and not worth all that exp/merits >_>;
                      Adventures of Akashimo Hakubi & Nekoai Nanashi


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                      • Re: rdm as DD?

                        That's unkind, Icemage; everyone seriously discussing RDM melee here already know it's only for sub-optimal parties. >_>

                        Poke fun at the people who think RDM should never main heal, but melee all the time instead?
                        Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                        yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                        Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                        leaving no trace in the water.

                        - Mugaku

                        Comment


                        • Re: rdm as DD?

                          I'd like to point out one thing: it occurs to me that SE didn't exactly say that they want RDM to DD. They only said they want RDM "to be used more as magical swordsmen". Maybe that doesn't mean dealing damage. Maybe it means, say, having Enstatuses -- an alternate means of sticking statuses that occurs so often that it can overcome resistance due to sheer volume of attempts in a short time at a low cost, and gets around any negative side-effects of direct casting *coughimpcoughcolibricough*. -- Pteryx

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                          • Re: rdm as DD?

                            Heh you missed the joke part of that metinks. I actually don't merit anymore due to almost all of my time going to LS events, and when I do it's on COR, most of my limit points come during trigger farming nowadays.

                            I also never said that a melee RDM is part of an optimal party setup, but realistically you can't always get BRD BRD RDM DDx3(note my earlier post where I said that in a setup of RDM BRD WHM DDx3, a very viable setup that I end up in often, a non-melee RDM is in fact dead weight).

                            I only advocate that if there is nothing better to do and all RDM duties are handled, there is nothing wrong with taking out a sword and adding supplemental damage, and that people should not automatically knee-jerk into 'OMFG GIMP MELEE RDM!!!'. I also take care to point out as often as possible that you should only try it if you're willing to really put effort into gear and macros for it, and not slack on your main duties.

                            And could I hit a chain like that with BRD WHM RDM DDx3, yes I believe I could do comparable, as generally when I melee I also pull/sleep nearby mobs to allow the BRD to pull ones from further out.
                            Callysto of RamuhCaithsith - 75 RDM / BRD / COR / PLD / WAR / SCH / DRK

                            Formerly Callisto of Ramuh. | Retired 5.28.10

                            Callisto Broadwurst of Palamecia

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                            • Re: rdm as DD?

                              /hijack

                              /em toss a dead horse into this thread*

                              /end-of-hijack

                              After 8 pages, this dead horse is still alive and kicking.... XD
                              Server: Quetzalcoatl
                              Race: Hume Rank 7
                              75 PLD, 75 SAM, 75 WAR, 75 NIN, 75 MNK, 65 BLU

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                              • Re: rdm as DD?

                                /em melees Celeal's dead horse as RDM.

                                Take that.
                                Callysto of RamuhCaithsith - 75 RDM / BRD / COR / PLD / WAR / SCH / DRK

                                Formerly Callisto of Ramuh. | Retired 5.28.10

                                Callisto Broadwurst of Palamecia

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