Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

[Taskmage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

Monk is a useful subjob to have to level warrior with. That's why someone mentioned it. Leveling monk to 9 would get your warrior to 18 which would get your paladin to 37. It seems like a lot of extra hassle, but leveling monk to 9 would only take an evening or two and it would help you a lot when leveling warrior.

Unfortunately, paladin is one of the few jobs in the game that is completely inflexible in subjob choice.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

Would it be possible to do Warrior to a level less than 18 AND while subbing either White Mage or Red Mage?

And Taskmage, why does your sig change so often? The text below only reveals 4 jobs but I've seen sigs for, like, seven now!

Is the text misleading or what? And by the way, you've almost hit 75 Red Mage! Congratulations!

Also, what if I, while leveling White Mage, leveled it to 18 and used THAT as a support for Paladin? I can use more white magic to draw more hate, and when taking damage, I can cure myself with more white magic. The cycle, along with a Shield Bash spiked hate occasionally, seems viable, no?

[Murphie]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

No, it doesn't seem that viable. In the lower levels, very little is going to beat a Warrior's Provoke for spiked hate.

[Taskmage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

I've seen people get away with using only a level 5 warrior sub. That's when war gets provoke, so the bare minimum you need to be functional. You'll get less enmity from mobs that way and more enmity from players. There's a limit to how far people will tolerate an underleveled sub, especially from the tank, who needs to be in top shape to stay alive and keep everyone else from dying. I'd be surprised if you got too far into the 20s that way.

pld/whm is redundant really. You'd get slightly more mp, but paladin already gets all the white mage spells that generate the most hate long before you would have gotten them from the subjob.

I haven't played tank jobs very much, so take this assesment with a grain of salt. Cycling through your job abilities and curing heavily may be enough for you to maintain hate during the fight, but it's very important to generate a large amount of enmity at the beginning of each fight and establish yourself at the top of the hate list, otherwise keeping the mobs attention will be an uphill battle. Provoke is also the single most reliable way to get hate back in the event that a damage dealer takes it. No other spell or ability in a paladin's arsenal produces as much hate in one shot as a heavy nuke from a black mage, or a weaponskill from a two-handed weapon.

It's a little broken they way paladin is so reliant on the warrior subjob, but that's the way things are for now.

I made a lot of sigs for the jobs I'm interested in (and had a cool quote for), and a script chooses them at random to display. The four jobs that I list levels for are my "main" jobs, ones I have some interest in leveling to 75. Dark knight and black mage are valued subs, summoner is a niche sub and a hobby, GM and samurai are just in there for fun. All my levels are listed if you click on Character Information over on the left. And thanks, with any luck I'll be earning my first merits this weekend.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

Ah, well, as you said, I will never really tell until I actually start. I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best to happen when that moment comes.

Meanwhile, leveling certain skills in another MMORPG has me all caught up: I'm going to 50 in just about everything there, but I'm kind of stuck on one skill: a plateau at 45. Which stinks, really, because to my knowledge, there's nothing to look forward to between 45 and 50 of the particular skill I'm thinking about. I'm starting to see why others who play the game don't use the skill themselves and hire others to "run" it for them. . .BUT that's getting a little off-topic, ins't it?

*Sigh*. . .if I ever want to start FFXI, I'd need to finish that game first. So to the tedium I leave (and back to the forums I will return shortly, lol).

EDIT: When I said "do Warrior to a level less than 18," I didn't mean drop it at five purely because of the Provoke, I meant at which level might a Mage job be viable for a Paladin to sub (below 37, of course).

What I just typed confused even me, so I DO hope I get my point across. . .

[Aeni]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

I have an idea to the OP.

Take RDM to level 18 (Can be solo'd and I've solo'd from 18 to 19 on my WAR before as well). Complete subjob quest if possible (Join a party)

Solo WHM to at least level 9.
Sub WHM to WAR. This makes WAR independant.
Solo WAR to 18. Very possible. Use pies to boost MP pool so that it makes this worthwhile.

PLD can now be taken to 37 with WAR. No need to do anything else for melee at this point.

[option]
Not necessary for what you're doing, but I would highly recommend this nonetheless

Now take BLM to level 9.

Alternate BLM and WHM and get both to 37 from this point (I know I would) Mages can start partying up at around level 9. But totally up to you if you forego this option. Just makes getting RDM up a little less painless.
[/end option]

Because you now have PLD to 37, you can now concentrate on getting RDM to 75. No need for stopping, I guess, except for Genkais (Genkai 5, however, is a fight that strips you of a subjob, so in the end, you don't need to worry about appropriate subjobs for this)

The tough part, in all this, is finding parties and also if you want to solo, finding optimal camps where you can find monsters appropriate to your current level that meets the requirement of dying fast and dying efficiently.

[Taskmage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

I think Aeni's advice is a good plan for you. It's doable, gets around your aversion for MPless jobs, and doesn't involve partying with an inappropriate or underleveled subjob.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

If I understand right, the schedule should be:

-Red Mage Solo to 18
-Sub-Job Quest
-WHM/RDM Solo to 15
-RDM/WHM Mixed to 30
-Paladin Quest
-Try PLD/WHM, Solo to 17 or 20, see how Party turns out
[if party doesn't go well as PLD/WHM, assuming I find an open-minded party to begin with (longer way)]
-WAR/WHM Solo to 18
-PLD/WAR Mixed to 37
[end previous if; if it does go well and party gains experience just fine as PLD/WHM (shorter way)]
-PLD/WHM Mixed to 37
[end previous if; both situations have PLD ending up at 37]
-RDM/PLD Mixed to 75

White Mage IS better at gaining Enmity than Red Mage, however, the general concensus is that nothing beats a good Provoke. But who knows what may happen: I may end up never tanking a day in my life! I can't plan the unpredictable, after all. So I'll just see what happens, and I'll probably take a turn I'll never have foreseen.

But thanks for all of you: don't think I'm stubborn and that you haven't impacted my too-short short-cut plan of PLD/RDM: you all keep opening my eyes more and more.

[Aeni]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

If I understand right, the schedule should be:

-Red Mage Solo to 18
-Sub-Job Quest
-WHM/RDM Solo to 15
-RDM/WHM Mixed to 30
-Paladin Quest
-Try PLD/WHM, Solo to 17 or 20, see how Party turns out
[if party doesn't go well as PLD/WHM, assuming I find an open-minded party to begin with (longer way)]
-WAR/WHM Solo to 18
-PLD/WAR Mixed to 37
[end previous if; if it does go well and party gains experience just fine as PLD/WHM (shorter way)]
-PLD/WHM Mixed to 37
[end previous if; both situations have PLD ending up at 37]
-RDM/PLD Mixed to 75

White Mage IS better at gaining Enmity than Red Mage, however, the general concensus is that nothing beats a good Provoke. But who knows what may happen: I may end up never tanking a day in my life! I can't plan the unpredictable, after all. So I'll just see what happens, and I'll probably take a turn I'll never have foreseen.

But thanks for all of you: don't think I'm stubborn and that you haven't impacted my too-short short-cut plan of PLD/RDM: you all keep opening my eyes more and more.

Not sure if you need to level WAR to 37. Once you level WAR to 18, then you are finished. WAR is not really a required subjob for RDMs, even in endgame. The only rare instance is when a RDM is asked to kite an HNM. However, said RDM usually is well equipped (far and beyond a normal RDM) and might also be fully merited for that specific task alone. Irregardless, I find that a RDM regularly kiting and using Provoke as a hate tool is few and far between, with probably less than 5 per server in existence (I only know of one RDM on my server in a JP LS that kites HNMs like this on occassion)

Since you're subbing PLD to RDM, you do not need to level PLD beyond 37 with current level cap limitations.

Half of 75 rounded down is 37.
Half of 37 rounded down is 18.

-------------

Personally? I did this when I decided to become a RDM with a brand new account/character:

Get RDM to 18 (Duel boxed and PL'd myself)
Get WHM to 18 (Joined parties)
Get BLM to 18 (Joined parties)

I alternated after this, between 3 jobs, depending on what was available LFP. If I saw too many WHMs and RDMs, I switched to BLM. If I saw no healer, I switched to WHM. If I saw no mages period, I switched to RDM.

In this fashion, I hit level 30 on ALL 3 jobs.

After that, I flew to 60 in mostly JP parties as a RDM in very short time (Under a month total) Of course, I just duel boxed in for the first two Genkais (piece of cake for a 70sh DRK)

Then I got both WHM and BLM to at least 37 (WHM higher for all the teleports and BLM to at least Warp II as well)

Now I'm working on NIN (Just about 3 levels why from 37, though I am going to hit 40 flat instead for flexilibity with other events)

It's quite possible for you to solo RDM to high, levels, but it certainly takes time and dedication. I met an Australian player last year who soloed to level 50 before joining an LS and getting help with his genkais. He's currently 75 now, from partying up with other players.

[Altae]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

Don't go RDM/PLD! It isn't as useful as you think it is. Go RDM/WHM! Why? Here's why:

-Can a RDM/PLD cure status effects like blindness, curse, paralysis, weighted-down effect, etc?
-Can a RDM/PLD teleport?
-Can a RDM/PLD autoregenerate HP 24/7 while you're in a hurry to run away? (Assuming you're keeping good distance between you and the threat. If you have to run for 5 minutes, you could recover some 20-50HP which could save you from one devestaingly disasterous hit which can prevent you from dying in some stupid way. Like, "What? I got finished off by a dia cast?! /sulk")
-Can a RDM/PLD enhance their cure potency at some random moment he/she chooses to? (Divine Seal! Double the potency of any cure spell available to you.)

RDM is not a fighting job. When a meteor hits Vana'diel and kills everyone on the entire planet, RDMs will be the only job surviving. Because that's what they do best. Let's just say that time is on a RDM's side than a PLD.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

First off, when I said mixed, I meant combining Partying and Soloing, depending on the situation.

Second off, RDM/WHM just feels. . .no, just no, please. RDM/PLD is the life for me, unless an unexpected twist of fate occurs: EVEN SO, the likelyhood of me submitting to RDM/WHM is EXTREMELY slim. PLD gives me some of the stuff WHM's have, but they give even more with tanking profeciency and Bonuses to the shield and Sword.

-Can RDM/WHM Cover an endangered ally, WHILE bringing the hate to you simuntaniously?!?
-Can RDM/WHM use EX Sword WS's?
-Does RDM/WHM have a real use for the Shield other than just to fill the sub slot (Shield Mastery TP + Shield Bash)?

It may not be the best at anything, but RDM/PLD has me covered with a little bit of everything!

[Jei]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

Rdm/Whm is not a combination for meleeing obviously. It's for when you do supporting role. IE: it's a party friendly subjob.

Rdm is one of the best supporter in game. There's no reason not to have Whm available as one of your repertoire

Just my opinion. You shouldn't set your mind so strong like this especially when you haven't started playing yet. Play the game. Look at Redmages from other job's point of view. And you'll know what makes a good Rdm. After that, then decide if you really want to be a Rdm. Rdm is not the melee, shield weilder, friend covering part of the party. We are back line supporters.

Being flexible is 1 thing. Being efficient in party is a total different thing.

[Icemage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

-Can RDM/WHM Cover an endangered ally, WHILE bringing the hate to you simuntaniously?!?

Divine Seal + Cure IV. Virtually guaranteed to stick hate to you if they're in that much trouble. Of course, the next person who will need healing will be YOU... (see below).

-Can RDM/WHM use EX Sword WS's?

No, but if you're in a situation where you're meleeing, you're not using /WHM, you're probably using /NIN instead for the far superior defense of Utsusemi.

-Does RDM/WHM have a real use for the Shield other than just to fill the sub slot (Shield Mastery TP + Shield Bash).

I don't know what you think you know about Shield Mastery and Shield Bash, but...

(a) Shield Mastery adds 1 TP per hit when you manage to successfully block at level RDM50/PLD25. Not exactly world shattering. Chances are it's not going to affect how quickly you can activate a WS considering how rare shield blocks are on RDM even with capped skills. You don't get access to Shield Mastery II or III when you sub Paladin.

(b) Shield Bash does give some enmity, but so what? You can't take hits very well as an RDM. Against stuff that's sort of close to your level you can hold your own for a little bit using Phalanx and Stoneskin, but if you Cover someone who just took several hundred points of damage in rapid succession, you're going to be taking a whole lot of damage yourself (and before you mention it, no, your Physical Defense Up trait from /PLD isn't going to save you)

It may not be the best at anything, but RDM/PLD has me covered!

Covered in what situation?

Solo against weak enemies? /DRK is better. Drain and Aspir, more Attack, and you still get EX WS. Hell, even /BLU is better. You can set spells to increase your stats, get Coccoon which is waaaaaaaaay more DEF boost than /PLD gives, plus more MP... oh and you still get EX Sword WS.

In an XP party? If you want more MP for your party to function well... /BRD's Mage's Ballad is superior to the Auto-Refresh you get from /PLD. If it's specifically Auto-Refresh you want, /SMN gives you the same trait but with significantly more MP to Convert with. As far as efficiency goes though, /WHM's Auto-Regen + status cures + Divine Seal is vastly superior, as is /BLM's Drain + Aspir + Sleepga + Escape + Conserve MP.

Farming? /THF for Treasure Hunter saves way more effort.

End-game? /BLM and /DRK both outperform by leaps and bounds.

Solo against slightly stronger enemies? /NIN gives you the defensive power you need to survive when Phalanx just isn't enough.

RDM/PLD shines in none of these situations. It's not even vaguely viable for XP or end-game, and is a distant third when farming. Not that you can't do some of these activities as RDM/PLD, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it's anything but a third-rate (or worse) subjob in any situation.


Icemage

[Taskmage]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

rdm/pld can't cover an ally either until level 70. Paladin doesn't get any spells that whm doesn't provide until level 74. Red mage accuracy isn't good enough to melee for TP in experience parties. What TP you do gain is eroded away when you rest to regain MP, so you'll never see those EX sword WS outside of Valkurm or possibly Qufim. Shield Mastery only gains TP for you if you take damage, which means you'll have to cripple yourself by not using stoneskin to mitigate damage in order to see any benefit. Moreover, as a mage class with substandard armor choices and poor damage and accuracy, taking damage and meleeing isn't something you should consider for group play unless your farming or fighting things that are otherwise way under your level.

/sigh but why do I keep replying after saying I'm sure you'll figure things out? Just play the game before drawing too many conclusions. As they say, no battle plan ever survives the first bullet.

[Jei]

Re: Looking for an endgame Taru RDM/PLD

I never know shield mastery gives no TP without taking damage. Shield blocking with stoneskin won't do a thing? I don't know, ever test it out.