RDM COP changes

[dirtyclown]

regen 2 is all i want. white mages can have their regen 3 and higher raise spells, i don't care. i can't count the times i've been in a party and the white mage didn't cast regen 2 or regen 1 during the entire party session. it's such a treat to party with a white mage that isn't a tard. too bad it doesn't happen very often.

[Rones]

I say that RDM should get ~at least~ Regen II, RaiseII, and a Refresh II is really needed. OR as others have commented, an updating to Refresh.

That would throw off job balance so much. Pre 66(regen 3), rdm would outperform whm in every possible way given those. If you want them so bad, go play a whm or stop partying with such bad whms. Only way I would see SE giving rdms more healing power is if they were to give whms some form of mp production akin to refresh or mage's ballad. Really need more jobs that cut downtime than just brd and rdm.

[Ruic]

My assorted ideas.

Some job adjustments that are worth considering IMHO.
Keep in mind job traits overwrite, not stack.

Job Trait: Enchantment Endurance (Increases Debuff and Buff duration.)

Level 15: Enchantment Endurance I (10% increase in duration)
Level 35: Enchantment Endurance II (20% increase in duration)
Level 55: Enchantment Endurance III (30% increase in duration)
Level 75: Enchantment Endurance IV (40% increase in duration)

Adjustment: Warlock's Boots now give "Enhances Enchantment Endurance effect" (+5% duration)
Adjustment: Duelist's Gloves now give "Enhances Enchantment Endurance effect" (+5% duration)

Why do I suggest this possibly overpowered trait? It would give RDMs a system in which their debuffs would scale with power, WHILE their buffs would scale in power with level. This would single-handedly solve the issues of needing a Refresh II or Debuff II line, by increasing the power of both over time. This would also not be nearly as useful for a BLM or WHM who use it as a sub, because they already have weaker enfeebling and enhancing skill. Really the ONLY unbalanced part of this particular trait would be the possibility of unbalancing Refresh. But we're talking for the expansion, and wish-list, so no harm done.

Job Ability: Focus Enchantment
Level 15
10 minute cooldown

Increases accuracy of next buff/debuff and gives 50% bonus to duration, does not stack with the bonuses from Job Trait: Enchantment Endurance.

Adjustment: Warlock's Gloves now give "Enhances Focus Enchantment effect" 5% bonus to duration/accuracy.

Could be used for sleeping, could be used for a super refresh. Versatility. This ability would be used by WHMs and BLMs who sub RDM without unbalancing it as well. A WHM may simply choose to Focus Enchantment a Protectra, or a Regen, while a BLM may choose to Focus a Bind, a Sleep, etc.



Job Ability: Diffuse Enchantment
Level 50
10 minute cooldown
Allows the RDM to cast any buff spell on the entire party observing the following restrictions:
- The spell will cost 2x normal MP, and take 2x cast delay. The spell will also suffer 2x cooldown time.
- The spell will suffer half duration, but will be affected by Job Trait: Enchantment Endurance.
- The RDM casts the spell on themselves. Party members must be within AOE range of the RDM.
- The spell must be a RDM learned spell, and not from subjob.
- The effects of the spell are based on the RDM's enhancing and spell-casting stat.
- You can not Focus Enchantment spells cast with Diffuse Enchantment.

Adjustment: Duelist's Boots now give "Enhances Diffuse Enchantment effect" 10% less duration penalty for using Diffuse Enchantment cast spells.

This job ability would allow a RDM to throw up a half-duration refresh-ga, half duration stoneskin-ga, half-duration haste-ga, etc, half-duration enfire-ga, half-duration phalanx-ga. Again, versatility.

Possible Skill Adjustments:
Dagger: B to C-
Staff: Nothing to C or C-

Possible New Spells:
Dia III (-20% defense) - Late 60s
Bio III (-20% attack) - Early 70s
Paralyze II - Early 50s
Slow II - Mid 50s
Blind II - Late 50s
Gravity II - Mid 60s
Bind II - Mid 40s
Stoneskin II (RDM only) - Late 60s
Haste II (RDM only) - Early 70s
Aquaveil II - Early 50s
Phalanx II - Late 60s
Poison III - Mid 70s
Aero, Aqua, Stone Spikes - Not picky, use your imagination.
I would also suggest allowing RDMs to learn -ga versions of Paralyze, Slow, Blind, Gravity, and Bind equivalent to the tier I spell, when they learn the Tier II.

Things I think should not be changed about RDM, or risk drastically overpowering it.
- RDMs should not get a II line of Enspells. Enspells already do insane damage when put in perspective. If there was a II line, it would have to cost 2-3x MP, and only be 1.5 times as powerful, at BEST.
- RDMs should not get a higher ability in sword skill than B+. This is entirely too unbalancing to even approach.
- RDMs should not get any better WS's than what we're allowed now. This offers us too much versatility in melee.
- RDM should never gain access to ancient magic, higher regens, higher raises, or any of the BLM/WHM specific spells now. As said before, RDMs should only expand their debuff/enhancing abilities in order to "balance" what some feel is a large spell gap.


As for totally off-topic opinions of what new jobs should make it into COP

Time Mage - Focuses on DoT spells, HoT spells, and has more powerful slows, hastes, and some non-elemental nuking spells. Gains access to some of the crazier status effects in the game, such as Curse, Disease (stops auto-regenning monsters) etc. Has a stun "Stop", and gains access to some of your standard RDM/WHM/BLM fare spells like Aquaveil, Spikes, etc. I don't know how balanced spells like Demi, etc would be. Would need many tiers of HoT types, DoT types, and other support abilities.

Geomancer - B+ Gaxe skill, B- Polearm, B- Axe, meleers with "spells" that cost HP and draw out magic effects based on zone, weather, day or night time, day of week, and moon cycle. Magic effects would mimic many spells. For example in a rocky area like Meriphataud, a Geomancer would be able to pull up stoneskin. While if in Meriphataud and on earthday, or earth weather, he may be able to pull up Stoneskin-ga. In the jungle, the Geomancer could pull up bind effects, or maybe acid rain, which causes a Dia effect. Geomancers should gain effects that mimic enspells to help support their melee as well. I feel this job would help flesh out the game's various job choices a lot. It would also allow Galka to have a decent outlet for "magic" as Geomancy would be based on HP and Job Abilities. Where a Taru could be a GEO/WHM, and function as a support class, a Galka could be GEO/WAR and function as a melee with support "magic."

<Insert Random Tanking Job Here> or give Geomancers heavy armor, and allow them to function as tanks. (Which works best in my opinion.)

Thanks for reading my tirade. @_@

[Patchinko]

Re: My assorted ideas.

Some cool ideas, Ruic.^^ I do have to argue with one though.

Originally posted by Ruic
Possible Skill Adjustments:
Dagger: B to C-

Being on the EX list for Dagger, I don't think this would ever happen, nor should it. Instead of raising level for 1h sword, I think we should be put on the EX list for it, mostly for solo purposes. It's incredibly annoying that when I'm soloing, unless I wait for 200%+ TP Spirits Within, my best WS is still Fast Blade. As much as we're not supposed to be melee mage in PT, we are a melee mage.

And to that end, a new job that I think would be great is Sword Mage.

Sword Mage would be a real melee mage, meant to melee in a PT, unlike the RDM. This job would be on the front line as a new class of melee fighter.

He would be able to equip heavier armor, like a RDM or DRK with maybe a few subtractions/additions, and would have access to Dagger, 1h Sword (EX/SP) and 2h Sword (EX/SP). In addition, he would be able to learn the elemental line of spells at the same rate as RDM. Of course, the main purpose of these would be Magic Bursts, since he would have relatively low MP. His strength and thus damage would be lower than the average melee fighter, but he would also be faster, perhaps getting inherent delay-reducing abilities.

The other spells he would get are En- spells, both the self-casting ones like RDM gets and more MP-costly En- spells that can be used on party members, one at a time. He would also get Sword Tech type abilities that do various things, causing damage to the mob and absorbing MP, a reliable stun move that also inflicts paralyze, and so forth... one could delve into past Final Fantasy games for ideas and be creative.^^

And of course, he would have a 5 or 10 minute Runic ability (no relation to Ruic above) that allows him to absorb the next spell cast, whether by PT member or mob, and convert it to MP. It would make Sword Mage very valuable against high level mage mobs, preventing Magic Pot's ancient magic or a Goblin Alchemist's Cure V.

It would definately be an interesting job for me, I think. I think Chemist would be great too, but a whole new line of Chemist-only potions would have to be created, or else it would be far too expensive/ineffective a job.

[WishMaster3K]

So help any Melee if we get Tier II En- spells. I mean, imagine this: A RDM/NIN, that has access to EX 1h-Sword and Tier II Enspells. Shit, you wouldnt need to be 74+ to solo. You'd take your ass from 24 and up....

Scary...

[Laehn]

If rdms get ex sword skills, i want ex dagger skills! Ill gladly take a punch with a lower sword or club skill for dancing edge or sharkbite.

[dirtyclown]

Originally posted by Rones
That would throw off job balance so much. Pre 66(regen 3), rdm would outperform whm in every possible way given those. If you want them so bad, go play a whm or stop partying with such bad whms. Only way I would see SE giving rdms more healing power is if they were to give whms some form of mp production akin to refresh or mage's ballad. Really need more jobs that cut downtime than just brd and rdm.

just regen 2 wouldn't throw it off at all. given the others yeah, we would be overpowered. but we get a 2nd version of a bunch of other spells, why not regen 2? personally i think white mages should keep the higher raise spells and the higher cures. that's what defines their job. just as our job is more or less defined by refresh. plus it only seems logical to give us regen 2, since we have a better enhancing rating. white mages wouldn't get replaced at all, they're the only ones who can do the higher lvl protectra/shellra spells and to be frank, they're the best backline partners to have. even if they don't status cure as fast as i can, they rock.

[bonovoxpsu]

while i personally love a lot of your ideas...

none of them can work. regen II / raise II would destroy whm's. rdm/whm would just own a whm/anything. on top of that, it would make us VASTLY overpowered. the only way, ONLY way they could give is regen 2 is if we got it at like lvl 74. but that would still be overpowering. think of what you could solo with that stacked on phalanx..... no go.

version 2 of the enfeebling line is overkill - most of those magics scale with our enfeebling skill - slow is a prime example. the recasts are relatively low too - so its just unnecesary. it would just take up more macro space...

Ruic - I LOVE YOUR IDEAS. too bad they would totally overpower us... you've got more additions to rdm alone then will be for all the classes put together! :spin:

the enhancement duration is great... but again, overpowering. the only one that might NOT be overpowering is the job ability "focus enchantment". but still, we'd be way too powerful.

skill adjustments, nah... B in sword and dagger seem to fit. while i wouldn't argue a staff lvl adjustment, it won't happen. doesn't fit the "rdm persona".

lvl 2 enfeebling spells? overkill. again, they already scale with your lvl, so there's really no need for a lvl 2 para. gravity 2 - again, WAAY too overpowering. en II's, phalanx II's, stoneskin II's? way way way way way too powerful.

i'm not trying to bash you, ruic - because i absolutely love the job abilities you put forth, but what a lot of people ask for are both unnecessary and overpowering. i only ask for one or two things from square for rdm's - because guys, we don't need anything.

so... the only thing i'm hoping for is dia III/bio III. and i think its a real possibility with the MP reduction cost if the 2 line. i'm really excited about this and you all should be too - they are great spells. hopefully this update opens the door to both of them.
[edit] totally forgot about poison3. that would be cool, but very doubtful...

in fact, as an rdm, i pray, PRAY they dont' nerf us. if anything, that would happen. no other job becomes as powerful as we do. while we can't solo HNM's, we can do some nasty things. count your blessings rdm's...

so, in summation:

1) no tier 2 spells of any kind. especially gravity.
2) dia3/bio3/poi3
3) pray square doesn't nerf us

you guys have some great ideas and some sound pretty awesome, but remember, there are 10 or so other jobs square has to look out for - including the sickly dragoon. doesn't the expansion get pushed server side today?

-cheers

[Discordian]

Re: Re: My assorted ideas.

Originally posted by Patchinko
Some cool ideas, Ruic.^^ I do have to argue with one though.

Being on the EX list for Dagger, I don't think this would ever happen, nor should it. Instead of raising level for 1h sword, I think we should be put on the EX list for it, mostly for solo purposes. It's incredibly annoying that when I'm soloing, unless I wait for 200%+ TP Spirits Within, my best WS is still Fast Blade. As much as we're not supposed to be melee mage in PT, we are a melee mage.

And to that end, a new job that I think would be great is Sword Mage.

Sword Mage would be a real melee mage, meant to melee in a PT, unlike the RDM. This job would be on the front line as a new class of melee fighter.

He would be able to equip heavier armor, like a RDM or DRK with maybe a few subtractions/additions, and would have access to Dagger, 1h Sword (EX/SP) and 2h Sword (EX/SP). In addition, he would be able to learn the elemental line of spells at the same rate as RDM. Of course, the main purpose of these would be Magic Bursts, since he would have relatively low MP. His strength and thus damage would be lower than the average melee fighter, but he would also be faster, perhaps getting inherent delay-reducing abilities.

The other spells he would get are En- spells, both the self-casting ones like RDM gets and more MP-costly En- spells that can be used on party members, one at a time. He would also get Sword Tech type abilities that do various things, causing damage to the mob and absorbing MP, a reliable stun move that also inflicts paralyze, and so forth... one could delve into past Final Fantasy games for ideas and be creative.^^

And of course, he would have a 5 or 10 minute Runic ability (no relation to Ruic above) that allows him to absorb the next spell cast, whether by PT member or mob, and convert it to MP. It would make Sword Mage very valuable against high level mage mobs, preventing Magic Pot's ancient magic or a Goblin Alchemist's Cure V.

It would definately be an interesting job for me, I think. I think Chemist would be great too, but a whole new line of Chemist-only potions would have to be created, or else it would be far too expensive/ineffective a job.

Sword mage? You described drk/rdm.

Really rdm doesn't need a lot of changes except maybe more hnm stuff that actually benifits rdm.

Time Mage? Haste, Slow, Paralzye, Poison, Dia II, Gravity, and Blind all in their own way controll the flow of time.

Haste: Speeds up attacks and lowers spell timers
Slow: Slows attacks and increases spell timers
paralyze: randomly shut down a enemy (consider this a spell almost like stop)
Poison: Kills with poison and does damage over time
Dia II: Increases melee damage killing it faster
Gravity: More successful hits and movement down.
Blind: Less hits that connect which makes for less healing.

Based on those rdm basicly is a time mage and making level 2 enfeebles might just totaly unbalance the game again in favor of rdm.