RDM COP changes

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Zempten
"The MP cost for the black magic spells Bio and Bio II will be reduced. The effect of these spells will now be dependent on the Dark magic skill."

There is the quote. It says "...the EFFECT of these spells will now be dependent on the Dark magic skill..." not the accuraccy. If by accuracy are you meaning resist?

Akiro, If they did raise the level cap to 80 they would still not have Refresh, but only convert. So don't worry about that and by the time your 80 and can use convert they would max out the exp and start some other job, meaning you still have a place in this world. Also if they did do that I'm hoping SE would do something to compensate for it.

I think it would be bad if other jobs got *refresh* and rdm's didnt get anything else. Other jobs getting *convert*, however, does nothing but HELP rdm. Think about it - now mages in the back line have the same sort of *reset after 10 minutes* ability that RDM's have. SO, WHM's could use more of their MP faster (read fight more battles because they can heal more often), and BLM's can use more MP for nukes (read: not hold back nearly as much). That only helps RDM's job - fights last longer, and can happen faster. It might suck in that meleeing becomes that much harder...but hey...red MAGE, right?

[WishMaster3K]

damn... good points.. never thought of it like that. I suppose we were being stingy... - -;;;;

[Lasareth]

RDM needs Convertga :spin:

[Zempten]

Originally posted by AtraposBLM
I think it would be bad if other jobs got *refresh* and rdm's didnt get anything else. Other jobs getting *convert*, however, does nothing but HELP rdm. Think about it - now mages in the back line have the same sort of *reset after 10 minutes* ability that RDM's have. SO, WHM's could use more of their MP faster (read fight more battles because they can heal more often), and BLM's can use more MP for nukes (read: not hold back nearly as much). That only helps RDM's job - fights last longer, and can happen faster. It might suck in that meleeing becomes that much harder...but hey...red MAGE, right?

Maybe I'm missing the point in the above post.

But even if they do raise lvl cap to 80,convert is only going to be used as a 80 <whateverjob>/ 40 RDM. How beneficial would that be for exp PTs? Even if you did continue to exp at 80, you'll hit the exp mark somewhere, are you going to keep on leveling a job that is already maxed out in XP and what not? Or are you refering to how useful convert would be to have for something else?

With a NIN tanking, I hardly see the WHM use any MP and they are usually even meeleing (take that like you will). With a PLD tanking I hardly even see a WHM get below 50% of the MP. There is the RDM there to keep their MP up and running and if not a RDM there is a BRD as well.

I thought BLMs only hold back because PLD cannot keep hate if BLM goes full force, correct me if I'm wrong. After all you are the 70 BLM.

I do not understand your statement on "...fights last longer, and can happen faster...". Isn't that a bit contridicating?

[Kilgraw]

Taru Blm's converting would scare the crap out of me. I sometimes get aggro as a Rdm converting... I can't even imagine how dangerous it would be for a Blm.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Zempten
Maybe I'm missing the point in the above post.

But even if they do raise lvl cap to 80,convert is only going to be used as a 80 <whateverjob>/ 40 RDM. How beneficial would that be for exp PTs? Even if you did continue to exp at 80, you'll hit the exp mark somewhere, are you going to keep on leveling a job that is already maxed out in XP and what not? Or are you refering to how useful convert would be to have for something else?

With a NIN tanking, I hardly see the WHM use any MP and they are usually even meeleing (take that like you will). With a PLD tanking I hardly even see a WHM get below 50% of the MP. There is the RDM there to keep their MP up and running and if not a RDM there is a BRD as well.

I thought BLMs only hold back because PLD cannot keep hate if BLM goes full force, correct me if I'm wrong. After all you are the 70 BLM.

I do not understand your statement on "...fights last longer, and can happen faster...". Isn't that a bit contridicating?

Bah..mispoke. I meant to say that "fights are shorter and are ready to happen again faster".


Yes, I was mainly talking about exping, but that was because I was responding to someone who said that if other jobs got convert it would make RDM/ useless. It would also more or less make /rdm mandatory for WHMs and BLMs for harder HNM fights. I would absolutely love convert as a taru blm, since elemental seal is on a 10 minute timer, I could convert, elemental seal + drain, and be back up to 400+ hp. Slap a regen on me and I'll be back to full HP real soon


Yes, the *main* reason BLMs hold back with paladins is hate. But I still find myself nuking less in order to have it possible to make chain 5 consistently. With poor paladins, I never feel that I could nuke more, but with *quality* tanks, I always feel like I could nuke more, but I have to hold back to conserve some MP.

Besides, if it did nothing else, it would mean that every 10 minutes, you were ready for an instant-pull instead of having to rest. That's basically every chain, you're ready for the next one without resting. Or on an HNM, every 10 minutes and you're ready to go at full force (read: you can use less people to accomplish the same goals now...or the same amount of people for safer, faster battles with HNM).

Anyways, my point is that other jobs gaining convert really won't hinder RDM at all. One, it'll only effect people trying to cap exp on their top jobs, two, it'll add power to whm's and blm's for HNM fights, and three, it'll make /rdm a viable sub for lv80 people. RDM doesn't suddenly become useless when other jobs can use convert.

[Deodorant]

If anything, I'd die for decently-high staff skill for spirit taker

[DM337]

I'd think that being able to use Convert as a sub would really screw over taru mages. (that is to say, non-RDM tarus) Their HP and MP aren't even very close, from the ones I've partied with, so their Converts will be rather craptacular. Meanwhile, all the other races wouldn't have as much trouble with bad Convert ratios, they might just have to lay off the +MP gear a bit.

[dirtyclown]

i'd like to be able to use regen 2 if nothing else. i swear, white mages don't take enough advantage of that spell. if i had it i'd use it all the time.

[Snafu-SI]

refresh II would be nice, or again, some kind of refresh skill that increases as your enhancing skill increases. Refresh is extremely outdated at my lvl, it still helps sure, but it'd be nice if it got even a little more effective.

Enlight, and enDark would be fun to play with.

What I am tired of is the uniqueness of our job, it'd be nice if we got SOME unique spells for rdm only. Obviously whm only have regen II/III, raise II/III, Holy, etc. BLM get all their fancy nukes, and higher lvls of nukes. And no, I'm NOT saying I want THEIR spells, just some spells that make US unique.

We're enfeeblers, how about some new enfeeble spells, like, and I'm just tossing out names here so, things like, SLOW II, or Haste II, Blind II, Gravity II, etc... since we're also the only ones that can cast gravity, how about GRAVIJA. And no, for those who do'nt know, it's not simply a gravity aoe attack. Full blown nuke. Would be fun to play with, even WHM get Holy, although not very powerful in later lvls, hey, at least they get SOME special nuke to call their own.

Honestly, I'm tired of only buying old BLM spells that BLM's got 20 lvls before I did.. Big whoopie. Something new? Hello Square, are you listening? Apparently not.

[bonovoxpsu]

gravity 2 would never happen. unless the recast time on gravity 2 was like 2 minutes.

it would bring back the uuber kiting rdm days of old - back when mobs NEVER resisted gravity. having 2 gravities? pfft.

having refresh increase in power as enhancing goes up would be the best way to tweak refresh. doubt they would do this.

having an updated version of gravity --> demi. now that would be a treat.

but most likely they would give it to blms >_<

[Discordian]

Originally posted by WishMaster3K
what could they do for the RDM... hmmm

HOW ABOUT MAKING USING A SWORD A WORTHY ENDEAVOR!!!

I'm was tired of hitting for crap damage, so around lvl 15, i just decided to chill in the back row and not add to the mob's TP.

Now, If we could get stuff like Vorpal w/o using a DRK or WAR sub... Or even an A- in Sword, I'd be eternally happy.

B is alright and A- is too much at best B+ would be nice but rdm just doesn't need a super sword skill. If you can't hit and solo those harder mobs nuke them.

[Ungerpurr]

Hmmm...gravija...now that would be interesting.

A line of nukes based off enfeebling skill rather than elemental? Just think about it...they'd primarily be nukes, but also carry some sort of debuff component on them equal to the current debuffs.

So you'd get nukes that do:

Paralyze
Slow
Blind
Gravity
Silence
Bind
Poison

Any I'm missing?

Make it a line of nukes that are rdm-exclusive, and maybe...three tiers of it, the final tier from 65-75 being slightly better than rdm's normal tier 3 nukes. Of course, if they could magic burst, that means they'd completely replace elemental skill...but I'm sure someone else has some idea about what to do with that.

Also, paralyze 2, slow 2, blind 2 (not useful in PTs, but still), silence 2, bind 2 would be nice spells to see, imho. Slightly increased effect, drastically longer duration would be enough to make them useful. Get them some time from 40-55 or so, I dunno.

I also think drks should get a nuke line of their own based on dark magic skill, that also includes absorbs...should be single target nukes, and ending up about 25-50% more effective than their current highest nukes (level 2s). Give them the level 1 versions about 5 levels after they get each particular absorb spell, then the level 2s leading up to 75.

There's a lot of interesting things that could be implemented...of course, I've learned never to expect anything cool to actually happen.

[tdh]

I say that RDM should get ~at least~ Regen II, RaiseII, and a Refresh II is really needed. OR as others have commented, an updating to Refresh.

As I recall, Regen was originally the only Regen spell WHM received. Sometime before the NA beta, RegenII and III were taken from RDM and given to WHM. Regen isn't even a Healing spell, it's Enhancing. Give it back to RDMs already.

SlowII, HasteII, and Demi would be nice spells. But I think they're holding off on those for a later release of Time Mage. I'd love to have those spells, but Slowga, Hastaga, Slow & Haste II, and Demi are all Time Mage type spells.

I think with the next expansion pack, we'll get a level cap increase, and 3 new jobs. One of which I really think will include Time Mage.

[Karinya]

Originally posted by tdh
I say that RDM should get ~at least~ Regen II, RaiseII, and a Refresh II is really needed. OR as others have commented, an updating to Refresh.

As I recall, Regen was originally the only Regen spell WHM received. Sometime before the NA beta, RegenII and III were taken from RDM and given to WHM. Regen isn't even a Healing spell, it's Enhancing. Give it back to RDMs already.

SlowII, HasteII, and Demi would be nice spells. But I think they're holding off on those for a later release of Time Mage. I'd love to have those spells, but Slowga, Hastaga, Slow & Haste II, and Demi are all Time Mage type spells.

I think with the next expansion pack, we'll get a level cap increase, and 3 new jobs. One of which I really think will include Time Mage.

Well, Regen was a time mage spell in FF V, too. You could logically extend this to give them Refresh, which would reduce the RDM shortage that some servers have. (Mine has a worse tank shortage, but RDMs don't exactly have to seek for 12 hours either.)

But we don't have time mages in FFXI now. I would love to see them too - although I wonder what kind of party setup you could squeeze them into. Unless TIM/WHM and RDM/xxx could split the buff/healer roles, which would be hard on WHMs. Or the aforementioned TIM getting Refresh idea allows WHM BLM TIM backline. I doubt if WHM TIM RDM would work well, since if TIM get any nukes it will probably just be comet/meteo spells which should be about as MP efficient as Banish, but maybe if you're fighting something where you can rely on your melees to deal most of the damage, and the RDM can sub BLM to cover Choke/Frost.

I'd also like to see a true sword mage - A+ rank in sword (for /NIN, or solo at early levels - maybe even tank until 30ish) and greatsword (probably /WAR, double attack > all especially with en spells), a full set of en spells (enlight, endark, en-status spells, endrain and enaspir, probably en-element 2, 3 at higher levels), traits that improve duration/damage/lower resists for en spells, but little or no magic besides en spells, no mainjob magic skills other than enhancing, and HP/MP balance similar to a DRK's. Enstatus spells, and the ability to add some elemental damage against high defense enemies, would help distinguish them from other DDs. Enaspir would be key to help them not have to lose TP resting. If that still isn't enough to distinguish them from other jobs, they could have a JA similar to Celes's Runic that cancels magic directed at them or pt members and absorbs MP from it, for a limited time. (Use this while the lich is casting Freeze...) Something like 30 second duration, 5 or 10 minute reuse would probably be useful without making your party immune to magic. 2hour could give your weapon a convert MP to damage effect, like the Rune Axe in FFV.

I have to admit, though, what the game *really* needs is another tank. This could be solved by improving WAR or MNK tanking (they might just need better gear for it, either can already hold hate off DDs and non-suicidal BLM with existing enmity gear while outdamaging either of the traditional tank builds, but have trouble being a cure sponge and can't keep hate off the healer as a result), or by introducing a new job that can tank.


Anyway, I have to reluctantly disagree with RDMs getting higher regens - although I would really like it, it diminishes the usefulness of WHM. Already RDM/WHM can do most of what a WHM does, except teleport (can even do that at very high levels) and certain status cures. Higher regens, higher raises, highest level protect on everyone for no extra MP are some of the things that make a main WHM valuable. (That, and WHM have a bigger MP pool for haste and cures, as long as they have a RDM backing them up.) RDM can do so many things that WHM can't do, or can't do nearly as well - let them have their own strengths.

It frustrates me to see WHMs underuse regen2, bar spells or haste, too, but there's nothing you can do except find smarter WHMs.

I would love to see refresh2 or refresh increasing in effectiveness with enhancing magic level - even if it only increased the duration and not the mp/tick, it would still give you more time and mp to cast other stuff. But honestly, refresh is pretty awesome already.

If RDM had no other spells than Refresh, Dispel and cures, we would *still* be useful against some mobs (although in that case, bards would be *way* better - but every server has a bard shortage). In addition we have a full enfeeble arsenal (best in the game in both variety and enfeebling skill cap), Gravity which no other job can get for a long time, protects and shells, high enhancing skill if we sub whm for bar spells, nukes/MB, enough elemental to succeed with frost/choke/etc. if no BLM, Haste if the WHM isn't casting it (or there are a lot of melees, since the recast timer is long), and even a bit of melee ability (not great, but sometimes better than nothing).