RDM/WAR why not?

[poppipo]

I just dont get why this couldnt be a tank, i mean if yu put all the best armour and +vit rings etc +phalanx+stoneskin+spikes+protect+blink+aquaveil+regen+shrll+refresh+haste, and the ability to heal yurself,

wouldnt yu be a good backup tank for a pld or nin?

[poppipo]

???

[Rones]

ROFL, this should make for some good entertainment.

Here's a few reason. For starters, provoke is not enough to keep hate and rdm dmg output is way to low to help keep hate. Also, rdm's don't have access to the best armor past ~25, meaning their defence will be sub par. As well, tanks get, at most, time for 1-2 rest ticks between fights, thus you would not be able to keep your mp up. Protect, regen, shell, and haste can all be provided by the parties support mages and the tank doesn't need to be able to cast those himself. Stoneskin lasts for all of 2 hits against IT and phalanx has a negilible impact on the dmg from IT mobs. Sure you could heal yourself, but after acting as main healer for one fight you would be out of mp and have no hopes of chaing past 1-2. And about your last question, back up tanks aren't needed, they are a waste of a party slot. If absolutly need be, typicaly one of the dmg dealers can act as a pseudo tank by throwing up defender combind with provoke in case the real tank afks or d/cs.

Also, don't expect a huge number of replies in under 20 mins. Threads usually take a few hours to get a good number of response.

[poppipo]

when i say backup, i mean provoking when the tank in in trouble, i would invit a rdm/war over a rdm/whm but thats just me....

[Rones]

Assuming the tank isn't completly worthless, a rdm/war won't be able to pull hate off him if he gets in trouble. Only ones in the party who have a chance of pulling hate off him would be the parties dmg dealers if they threw out a provoke or heavy attacks (eg. soul eater & sidewinder). Also, your tank would be much less likely to wind up in trouble if your rdm were to be subbing whm or blm and using mage gear instead of high def tanking equipment. 2 electrum rings and an electrum hairpin's worth of extra curing mp from the rdm is a lot more likely to save a tank than a rdm subbing war wearing high def melee gear using provoke that has no hope of pulling hate. And that is only one of many instances. War sub is utterly useless to a rdm. You won't pull hate with just provoke, and none of the other abilities it provides enhance any of the rdms duties.

[bonovoxpsu]

ok, past lvl 20, its worthless.

trust us.

lets just drop this topic before it becomes a flamefest. rdm/war past lvl 20 (30 absolute max) is terrible.

OK?

[poppipo]

i think a rdm could pull hate with provoke and dmg+enfeeb spells

[poppipo]

well what about if there where no plds or ninjas?

[neighbortaru]

Originally posted by poppipo
i think a rdm could pull hate with provoke and dmg+enfeeb spells

No, we can't.

well what about if there where no plds or ninjas?

yer screwed. well, it might not be that bad if there's a WAR to tank (or a MNK even), but a rdm cannot be a ghetto tank in XP parties. Maybe a SATA partner, but I wouldn't put all my money on it.

[Apple Pie]

backup tank for a pld or nin?

Around Valkurm Dunes and Qufim Island, we except for taru red mages can do that and I actually tell newbie red mages in my LS to do so when there's only one voker in their PT.

As for weapons and armors, you can equip almost the same ones as what paladins and worriors can until LV34. There isn't much difference between each job because you only have a few job abilities and traits till LV30.

So, yes. you are able to do a backup tank in early stages (LV12 - LV29). However, you should know those spells you listed hardly work against XP (IT) mobs. Stoneskin is broken after you get hit twice and you have no way to recast it while tanking.

[Rones]

Hmmm, maybe...

[ifandbut]

Originally posted by neighbortaru
Maybe a SATA partner, but I wouldn't put all my money on it.

I am the SATA bitch as we like to call it fairly often...it does not take mutch mp to cast stoneskin before the fight. The thf only really complains when I'm in the middle of my refresh cycle and I'm not directly behind the mob or something else. Because I do not get hate the thf can SATA off of me without the mob atacking me after and so the pld does not lose control. If the thf SATA off of a Drk then the mob could turn and the pld would need to get hate back via provoke or flash. So in a sence..all the hate that is created with SATA just disapears when the SATA bitch is a rdm.

[Sugesuke_Plain]

Re: RDM/WAR why not?

Originally posted by poppipo
I just dont get why this couldnt be a tank, i mean if yu put all the best armour and +vit rings etc +phalanx+stoneskin+spikes+protect+blink+aquaveil+regen+shrll+refresh+haste, and the ability to heal yurself,

wouldnt yu be a good backup tank for a pld or nin?

Well it sounds like an awesome idea doesnt it?
but for 1, most of the spells you listed take along time to cast.
2, like someone above said.. stoneskin and blink would be gone after just a few hits.
and 3, RDM is really too busy to be tanking.. and you'd be wasting alot of MP *trying* to keep the hate.. or get it in the first place

[Icemage]

To be honest, a well-played WHM makes a better emergency tank than RDM in an emergency at low levels. At that point, Blink is your primary defensive tool, not your armor, and since WHM regularly have high aggro ratings anyway, it takes very little effort for a WHM to steal aggro off a tank who's hurting (Curaga, Cure III, Benediction, Divine Seal, etc.). I had to do emergency tanking a few times myself when I was low level, and as long as you keep your wits, you can use Blink to hold off a monster for at least 15-20 seconds - which can be long enough to kill it.

The problem with using RDM as a backup tank is not that RDM can't tank.. it's that they never get aggro no matter how hard they work at it.


Icemage

[Timoham]

A ranger would make a better back up tank just because they can actually get the hate, unlike most RDMs. Hell, I know I've done it a few times. I walk the line of hate, then oh shit the tank is in trouble suddenly? EES! It's either dead or VERY mad at me. That or even just provoke and I have the hate and keep myself healed with bloody bolts the same time the WHM heals me until it's dead.

And seriously? Hasn't this been posted on this forum 500 times by now? :X search is your friend if you're really curious about stuff like this.