Refresh Whore

[Claud]

midnilux
You're not gonna be able to solo much even with a Ninja sub until level 74, utsusemi: ichi sucks ass, and you cant get ustusemi: ni on an RDM till lvl 74

Take a look at Apple Pie's Sig man.

[Apple Pie]

You're not gonna be able to solo much even with a Ninja sub until level 74

I think I'm against it.

Just think of which is better Blink or Utsusemi:Ichi.

Blink
Cast: 6 seconds
Recast: 10 seconds
MP Cost: 20
Illusion: 2

Utsusemi:Ichi
Cast: 4 seconds
Recast: 30 seconds
MP Cost: 0
Illusion: 3

It is hard to safely cast Blink during the battle with EM, Tough, or stronger without interrupted even with our FastCast ability and AF hat. We still need 4.8 secs to cast it.

However, it isn't for Utsusemi:Ichi. 3.2 sec for casting is pretty safe. So, every 20 seconds (RDM60 with AF hat and Haste on), we get free (no MP cost) Blink. This tremendously help our Stoneskin to last longer.

There are many more goodies of RDN/NIN for soloing but if you want me to prove that, I'm willing to record another movies for you.

[MMan530]

Originally posted by midnilux
I dont like that BLMs have Sleepga, they have too many debuffs and utility spells for all the plethora of damage spells they have. Anything that is enfeebling magic we should have, but no...

I never really liked how rdms couldn't get the elemental debuffs without subbing blm. Yeah, they are elemental, not enfeebling, but they are part enfeebling too.

You're right, Apple- we are emergency control. I LOVE that part of Rdm.

Claud: just scroll through the topics that came up last week. We debate /nin religiously. I think the consensus is that /nin is useless in parties and really only justified from 74+.

[Claud]

I know, you should have read what I stated. I didnt say it was usefull for groups anywhere. I said for soloing. But yes, I have a bad habit that when I talk about anything its always 74+. I usually forget to think about how the combination works without max subjob.

I'm personally against any subs other then /WHM or /BLM in groups for RDM's.

[MMan530]

Recast of 20 seconds is huge, even with three images. For Utsu:Ichi to make a difference based off of being cast 1.6 seconds quicker, you'd have to factor in the 13 extra seconds it takes to recast Utsu also.

If a monster is attacking every 1.6 seconds (the only way that a difference of 3.2 second cast would matter with relation to a 4.8 second cast), is the 13 extra seconds of recast really justified by one extra blink and 1.6 seconds less of recast?

I think ultimately the debate would be hard to prove either way if both people are really established in their views. Nin Blink certainly would have its bonuses. Dual wielding isn't to be overlooked either.

However, controlling a fight is best done with a /blm sub, and best serves the rdm fighting style. Controlling is the way to success with rdm.

I don't doubt that /nin has potential, but I do doubt the incredible use for it pre-74 with respect to other subs.

Claud- I did read your statement. I was just stating my claim again. You were really only affected by the latter half.

[Apple Pie]

Well, I should have stated RDM/NIN pre LV74 works better on my soloing tactics instead of stating it's better in general.

Most creatures except for some NMs attack us every 240 frames (4 seconds). When I duel with EM+ orcs, it is very hard to cast Blink without interrupted even after Slow lands. Also, costing 20MP for just two images are nothing but waste of MP for me (although I am taru). Therefore, I don't usually use it as you might see most of movies I took.

I don't expect so much on Dual wielding but I'm glad I'm able to have two R.K.Fleuret and get +12 Acc iventually. In addition, we can get total 11 (5+1+5)% TP back with Fast Blade when dual wielding. I get 8 (5+1+1+1)% when I shoot Vorpal Blade with DRK sub. I know Vorpal is still better but TP-wise, the former isn't bad.

[bonovoxpsu]

i say we make a new law expressly forbidding the discussion of the /nin sub on the rdm board.

i think we can all agree that /mage is the way to go for pt subs. lets leave it at that - because we all do stuff differently when we solo...

i've seen rivers of blood run the streets from the /nin debate. i'm sick of the death and destruction its caused! cats and dogs living together - MASS HYSTERIA! JUST SAY NO!

:spin:

[Jinxie]

I like being a refresh whore......God I'm such a slut. IMHO, I believe that RDMs are the very backbone of a good XP party.

Parties without a RDM are like bands without Drummers...someone has to keep the rhythm.

[METDeath]

Originally posted by Jinxie
I like being a refresh whore......God I'm such a slut. IMHO, I believe that RDMs are the very backbone of a good XP party.

Parties without a RDM are like bands without Drummers...someone has to keep the rhythm.

Yes, they're called a Bard.

[MMan530]

I propose that we chalk it up to a difference in playstyle.

[macross_sdf1]

I'm rdm/thief when I solo, not ninja. Ninja sub is for soloing avatars for fun, or helping lowbies with genkai2 or getting lowbies their AF, or if you have a bune sword and kraken club. I also sub ninja when doing the 5AA penta battle as well. For soloing aquarius, blm sub.

[Reven]

The thing about being a refresh whore is people dont actually praise you or complement you if you are doing a good job. Ive been in exp party where for like two hours straight Ive kept refresh up so that party members dont go without it at all, landing alll my enfeebles every mob, and never get kudos. (If I miss refresh because Im trying to do something when it comes up I get yelled at, /p REFRESH u stupid red mage <annoyingcall2>)

Also they melees and mages like to blame me when they screw up. Dragoon will miss like 5 times in a row on raptors and start spamming (Dispel)!. Black mage gets resisited on crawlers and does the same thing. I cant get any peace till I dispel a mob that has no buffs on.

So yeah, you are pretty much treated like a whore


(Fun thought for the day, Dark knight tellls me she hates red mages and likes to see them die )

[Jinxie]

Originally posted by Reven
The thing about being a refresh whore is people dont actually praise you or complement you if you are doing a good job. Ive been in exp party where for like two hours straight Ive kept refresh up so that party members dont go without it at all, landing alll my enfeebles every mob, and never get kudos. (If I miss refresh because Im trying to do something when it comes up I get yelled at, /p REFRESH u stupid red mage <annoyingcall2>)

Also they melees and mages like to blame me when they screw up. Dragoon will miss like 5 times in a row on raptors and start spamming (Dispel)!. Black mage gets resisited on crawlers and does the same thing. I cant get any peace till I dispel a mob that has no buffs on.

So yeah, you are pretty much treated like a whore


(Fun thought for the day, Dark knight tellls me she hates red mages and likes to see them die )

I feel your pain. Nothing like wasting MP on Dispel for an unbuffed mob just because your party members can't hit it.:mad:

[chaosknight]

Originally posted by Reven
The thing about being a refresh whore is people dont actually praise you or complement you if you are doing a good job. Ive been in exp party where for like two hours straight Ive kept refresh up so that party members dont go without it at all, landing alll my enfeebles every mob, and never get kudos. (If I miss refresh because Im trying to do something when it comes up I get yelled at, /p REFRESH u stupid red mage <annoyingcall2>)

Also they melees and mages like to blame me when they screw up. Dragoon will miss like 5 times in a row on raptors and start spamming (Dispel)!. Black mage gets resisited on crawlers and does the same thing. I cant get any peace till I dispel a mob that has no buffs on.

So yeah, you are pretty much treated like a whore


(Fun thought for the day, Dark knight tellls me she hates red mages and likes to see them die )

Hmm... on Carbuncle I have never gotten that about Refresh, but I have experienced the 'dispel syndrome' that many melees have. It does get slightly annoying, but sometimes I do make mistakes on dispel, so if they ask for another dispel, I'll do it anyway, even if the mob had no buffs.

[Lightseeker]

Originally posted by Reven
The thing about being a refresh whore is people dont actually praise you or complement you if you are doing a good job. Ive been in exp party where for like two hours straight Ive kept refresh up so that party members dont go without it at all, landing alll my enfeebles every mob, and never get kudos. (If I miss refresh because Im trying to do something when it comes up I get yelled at, /p REFRESH u stupid red mage <annoyingcall2>)

Also they melees and mages like to blame me when they screw up. Dragoon will miss like 5 times in a row on raptors and start spamming (Dispel)!. Black mage gets resisited on crawlers and does the same thing. I cant get any peace till I dispel a mob that has no buffs on.

So yeah, you are pretty much treated like a whore


(Fun thought for the day, Dark knight tellls me she hates red mages and likes to see them die )

I have filters on, so I don't see a message in the log when a mob buffs itself. I just tell my pt, that if I miss a dispel to let me know. Often I'm in the back row and can barely see the mob, so I don't always see the buff go on, and I spend more time looking at the log and the HP/MP bars than I do looking at the mob anyway. Sounds like your party doesn't have a very good understanding of what RDM is like -- might be time to get a new pt. :sweat: