Spell Order

[Rael B.]

Been wondering for a while in what order do most RDM cast their enfeebles, I ussualy go like this:

Shock > Slow > Paralyze > Dia/Bio > Gravity > Blind (if there's no PLD)

Of course Refresh, Cures and Bursts fit into the cycle.

[DrSerpico]

Here's my order.

I'm a whm sub due to party reasons, but here's my go:

Slow > Para > Dia > Gravity > Blind.

Slow comes first, since my pt has nin tank, so he needs the delay for shadow buffing.

Para has priority over dia in my book, since lesser mob movements first, increase pt dmg later.

Dia should always be cast, since free extra dmg for your PT is NEVER a bad idea. If you're to low on mp for Dia II stick Dia I.

Gravity is same category as Dia, damage enabling... Not much more to say. Not high priority since it's not a spell with dramatic/vital effects compared to slow/paralyze.

Blind is a gravy spell, if noone needs healing/haste I'll toss blind on afterwards... If I'm low on mp at the start of chains I'll skip it, since every point of mp counts ^^

My 2 gil.

[Ruic]

I'm a RDM/NIN, and my Static PT has this particular set up going on for our opening strategy.
THF pulls with ranged.
Mob is incoming, I toss Gravity. Mob slows down, I drop Dia II. Mob comes for me. Blink takes a hit, slow lands. Blink takes a hit, THF SA/TAs onto the Galka PLD, and I drop paralyze, then blind. Then whatever ninjutsu debuff is necessary for the nukes incoming.

I choose Gravity - Dia II - Slow - Paralyze - Blind for a few simple reasons. Gravity slows things down, and lets everyone get in position. Dia II is a huge bonus to that SA TA Viperbite that's gonna land. Slow is the best damage stopping debuff so it is next, followed by paralyze, then by blind, which is eventually overwritten by the PLD's flashing when it becomes necessary.

It really boils down to two things. If you have a blink tank, slow first for sure, if you're using an immediate SA/TA to secure hate off the bat, you might want to go with gravity.

[AtraposBLM]

Just want to point out that for a RDM/NIN, you're fairly accurate with your information.

However, you're going to find that very soon, you'll want to get a real sub, as your ninjutsu will stop landing (if they're even landing now...). Talk to Hamlet (on midgardsormr) if you don't believe me. He's a former rdm/nin, rdm/brd, and other oddball combinations (he's on midgardsormr with us). Don't mean to be rude...but it's seriously aggrivating that people still choose that sub.

[Digital]

Originally posted by Ruic
I'm a RDM/NIN, and my Static PT has this particular set up going on for our opening strategy.
THF pulls with ranged.
Mob is incoming, I toss Gravity. Mob slows down, I drop Dia II. Mob comes for me. Blink takes a hit, slow lands. Blink takes a hit, THF SA/TAs onto the Galka PLD, and I drop paralyze, then blind. Then whatever ninjutsu debuff is necessary for the nukes incoming.

I choose Gravity - Dia II - Slow - Paralyze - Blind for a few simple reasons. Gravity slows things down, and lets everyone get in position. Dia II is a huge bonus to that SA TA Viperbite that's gonna land. Slow is the best damage stopping debuff so it is next, followed by paralyze, then by blind, which is eventually overwritten by the PLD's flashing when it becomes necessary.

It really boils down to two things. If you have a blink tank, slow first for sure, if you're using an immediate SA/TA to secure hate off the bat, you might want to go with gravity.

That may work now, but when mobs start double attacking more consistantly, it's really gonna suck for you.

EDIT: Forgot to actually answer the question ^^*.

Dia II -> Slow -> Para -> Gravity -> Blind (if NIN tank)

My order is basically the same as everyone else's, but I prefer to throw Dia out first as it's such a low casting time. It allows for the melees to get more damage right from the start (ie. allows fuidama to do slightly more damage and therefore more hate on tank). And since Dia is never resisted (can it be? I've never had it miss) its easier just to get it out of the way.

[Beener]

I usually go
1. Gravity (longest recast),
2. Shock (my mnd is a little low, prepares for....)
3. Slow(another long recast),
4. Paralyze,
5. Bio/Dia (usually don't handle them), and
6. blind last (last b/c it gets the most hate and the pld's flash usually wears by then.)

i take off some spells for certain situations

of course if anyone's refresh wears they take immediate priority, as well as dispel.

[Ruic]

(Sorry this is a bit off topic.)
Thank you for the small nod of respect Atrapos. I don't play RDM/NIN or RDM/WAR out of total pride or arrogance, nor do I do it for a lack of information or experimentation. Ironically my linkshell is over half mages, and we lack for tanks. In my future there will be quite a few LS groups with 4 mages. While I'm not the best tank in the world, or the best blink tank, I make a satisfactory sub-tank for grouping and great catastrophe control vs links/pop. If it helps any, I may end up in PTs built like PLD THF WHM BLM RDM BRD a lot. Which puts me in a situation where dispel and elemental debuffs are in another's jurisdiction.

I'm new on the boards, but I've lurked quite a long time on quite a few boards, and have seen all sides of the arguments, including Hamlet's information on the vault boards and such.

And yes, I could be considered a "young" RDM at 41, which is where I will be for a few more weeks until a few members of my LS return from a vacation in Japan and we all do everyone's AF1s together.

Gotta start saving up for my Valkyrie's Mask. :sweat:

[Jonnyram]

Gravity → Blind → Frost → Paralyze → Slow → DiaII (if fighting crabs)

[Tomoh]

Interesting order. Maybe it's out of habit, but my order is:

Paralyze-Slow-Gravity-Frost. I never cast Dia2. I never even bought the spell. Since Dia2 is not resisted, I let WHM or a BLM cast this. As for Blind, it doesn't seem to stick as well as other enfeebles so I only cast when I have ample MP and time.

My priority is Refresh and Haste. I normally split haste duty with a WHM. When able, I like to cast Frost and Rasp if no BLM in PT. I take Frost over Shock to help the frontline.

[Cakosama]

I am not sure if I am right or not, but I usually don't cast Gravity if the PLD or NIN is holding hate perfectly. The mobs are not moving, so the Gravity seems less important. If I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks :sweat:

[DrSerpico]

one side

Well, Gravity making the mob move slower than carby after a bunch of pokemonhaters on steroids found him skulking in the gym... wait, rephrase.

Gravity making the mob move slow is just one side of the spell. The weight effect given by Gravity also makes mob evasion lower. This, in effect makes melee accuracy better, i.e. helps the melee hit the mob. (The grunts tend to like it. "Gronk hit mob! Hit mob much and easy. Gronk happy. Give nice magic man many presents!" Errr, don't ask. 07:41, still no sleep.)


More noticeable on high evasion mobs like goblin robber-types and toramas, but nice under most circumstances, at least for exp.


No need to bother with this one on skillups however. And don't be afraid to recast when it wears off, the "increased resistance over exposure" for gravity only works for HNMs. Maybe for NMs to, this I haven't researched.

There it is, in a short essay. ('-'*)
Reason why gravity is almost as much bread and butter as para/slow/dia

[DrMrLordX]

My current order is:

shock -> paralyze -> slow -> choke -> burn -> gravity

Sometimes I'll toss gravity before choke/burn if some of the mages in the party draw hate early in the fight.

I don't use Blind becaues of Flash, and because it doesn't seem to do enough to warrant casting it(unless it is used in conjunction with Rasp).

I use Dia/Dia II when I can, but lately, it's been getting over-written by people using Bio/Bio II. I'm not wasting the MP on it unless I notice the party avoiding spells from the Bio line. I don't feel like overwriting their Bio I with Dia II or having my Dia/Dia II overwritten by Bio II.

I also remove all the elemental debuffs from my spell order if I can get a blm in the party to cast them for me. They do a better job with those spells anyway.

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Tomoh
Interesting order. Maybe it's out of habit, but my order is:

Paralyze-Slow-Gravity-Frost. I never cast Dia2. I never even bought the spell. Since Dia2 is not resisted, I let WHM or a BLM cast this. As for Blind, it doesn't seem to stick as well as other enfeebles so I only cast when I have ample MP and time.

My priority is Refresh and Haste. I normally split haste duty with a WHM. When able, I like to cast Frost and Rasp if no BLM in PT. I take Frost over Shock to help the frontline.

Frost and Shock stack ^_^

[uhsieh]

Which of the elemental debuffs stack?

Just want to know... which of the elemental debuffs stack? Thanks.

[AtraposBLM]

Fire > Ice > Wind > Earth > Thunder > Water > Fire

The debuffs dont work with the surrounding 2 elements.

That is to say,
Fire (Burn), Wind (Choke), Thunder (Shock) stack, and
Ice (Frost), Rasp (Earth), and Drown (Water) stack.

If you want just 2, the following stack:

Frost/Rasp (good)
Frost/Shock (Very Good)
Frost/Drown (ok)
Shock/Burn (Very Good)
Shock/Choke (ok)
Burn/Rasp (ok)
Choke/Drown (not so good)
Rasp/Drown (not so hot)

The 3 most useful are Shock/Burn (best for rdm's and blm's), Shock/Frost (help rdm's and melee's), Frost/Rasp (very good for melees). Use as apporpriate for your party. When I have low rdm's, I use shock/frost. When I have low melee's, I use frost/rasp. When I have low mages, I use shock/burn.