RDM and melee?

[DM337]

I believe Apple Pie posted a formula for monster TP gain somewhere on the forums. (probably in another RDM melee topic)

[Karinya]

If you farm with a thf sub, why not use viper bite? Lower delay is better for en spells anyway, and the low damage isn't as much of a concern on EP and lower (it's easy for your str to exceed their vit so your base damage is higher than the weapon's base damage, which benefits you more on low delay weapons).

Actually rdm can get viper bite with any sub... we're on the EX list for dagger and not for sword. So why is our AF1 a sword? :confused:

I think a large part of the problem with RDM melee is the tendency of poorly informed parties to go for the highest EXP per kill, at the expense of EXP per hour (longer fights, more downtime, shorter chains). If the monster is 8 levels above the highest level member, and the RDM is two levels *below* the highest level member, you're going to need +1 wands just to land basic enfeebles, and miss on almost every swing. Not because RDM is a gimp class, but because you're on the wrong end of a 10 level difference. (Of course this won't stop people from inviting low level RDMs, because they still get their refresh and backup heals.)

On the other hand if the RDM is tied for the highest level in party and you're fighting things 5 levels above you, you could probably land enfeebles with no trouble while wielding a sword or dagger - and hit with it, too. (I'm not saying hit with every swing, but at least hit often enough to add some extra damage.) Then you kill the mob twice as fast taking half as much damage and chain 5 or even 6.

Just because you *can* kill a certain IT+++++ monster doesn't mean you *should*.

[ZQM]

Viper Bite is a horrible WS. :sweat: Cyclone (or if you're level isn't high enough Gust Slash) easily outdamages it. I do around 150 on Too Weak with Cyclone, and around 60 with Viper Bite. The only reason it's used in EXP parites is because of the burst on skillchains, but you won't be doing any SCs when farming.

Dagger should deffinatly be used if you're farming though IMO. Cyclone is an awesome AoE WS. Too my knowledge, there are no sword AoE WS. Being able to get around 15 mobs and killing them with one move is very very nice. And if you're fighting here level monsters, Energy Steal/Drain helps a lot with downtime.

I got about 33 MP with 100% TP with Energy Steal off of Dancing Weapons (Max MP = 100 with WHM sub) (And no, I wasn't farming Dancing Weapons, just testing out some thing/leveling h2h).

[Uroboros]

Viper Bite is designed exclusively to stack with SATA and does absolutely pitiful damage without them. When farming you are not going to get a chance to SA enemies past the first hit and you will NEVER get a chance to TA on your own, so Viper Bite sucks. Cyclone does way more damage and is not dependent on being attached to SATA to be worthwhile. Also, Circle Blade is an AOE sword skill but sucks.

And on that ten level spread example of an exp pt - if someone has to be at the low end of the pt's spread, you WANT it to be the mages. Yeah your enfeebles won't land as well. But being on the low end of a spread does nothing to change your Cure, Haste, or Refresh potency, and that's why you were invited (enfeebles are a secondary consideration, and melee wasn't a consideration at all). Much better for the mages to have trouble sticking enfeebles than for the melees to at the bottom of that level spread and have trouble hitting at all, building TP consistently, or taking hits well.