RDM and melee?

[Beaginator]

Hello, I'm currently a level 52 BRD. I've got a few questions about RDM.

I have a RDM friend (I think he's level 53 now) who I party with pretty frequently, and he really really likes to melee.

I don't really like it when he does this, as it makes it pretty much impossible to give him the mage songs (ballad, etude) when he's right next to the melees. It's pretty infuriating being forced to give him melee songs.

Also, he does not rest in between battles because he wants to be able to do his WS. He only comes to the backline and rests when he's out of MP and has no convert.

We've been leveling in Quicksand Caves versus Anticans for the last few levels, and he is constantly being hit by that nasty AoE silence ability. If I'm lucky enough to be in the backline at the time, I'm forced to Silena him, or the WHM has to do it.

I haven't played RDM much at all, so I don't really know a lot about their melee capabilities at level 53. I never really thought of RDM as a melee job, but I'd like some other opinions about this, please.

[Bamce Sylph]

redmage melee is gimp, with all due respect, your friend is a noob, and should perhap be pointed towards message boards in an effort to curb his...... facination.

as a bard, if redmages wanna melee wahtever, don't expect me to try and bust my ass so u can have mage songs. you will get the same songs melees will and if u don't like to ts, hopefully someone else will say something before i will b/c i'm way to busy as is

[Deodorant]

As rdm, melee'ing isn't strong, but it isn't that gimp either, so it really doesn't matter if an rdm melee's or not.

Exceptions: If you have a bard in party, mages must not melee at all. Tell him that either he stop melee'ing, or only melee after you have done your acc/atk up songs (assuming you do 2x ballads, then run and do acc/atk songs like most other bards), and always run back to backline when you're about to do ballads again.

Anticans, the only time it is acceptable for a mage to melee is if he brings and uses his own echo drops.

[Ruic]

I am a RDM/Melee myself, but your friend is having some serious issues. Having both RDM/WAR and RDM/NIN experience to a great extent, I can offer some of the following advice.

Meleeing with your sword is usually okay, but you need to be casting with a wand. You're only hurting your party if you don't make up for your choice of sub by using stat altering gear. For Ninjas this means dual wands+rings. For Warriors this means Wands+rings+necklaces if not more.

Because you're switching weapons around between wands and swords, your TP should never really go above 40-60%, it should get dropped to 0 for dispels often.

Always rest. Convert is awesome and so is Refresh, but the chain is much more awesome. If your friend has less than 160 mp at the end of any fight, he needs to be on a knee. 160 MP is enough for Gravity, Dia II, Slow, Paralyze, Blind, and 2 dispels, which could possibly get someone through a fight with Refresh on top of that, but refresh usually negates itself as it barely keeps you even on refreshing others.

I may not be your level, but at my level I have to use +dex and other combat gear in order to maintain a 70%+ accuracy. Maybe your friend uses life belts, and sniper rings to melee. If so, that is his prerogative, as long as he does his job as a RDM. It's what I plan on doing. :p

[Dtec]

I'm not sure if people have told you this before because I do not want to sound like a broke record, but RDM/NIN is horrible for an xp party. First of all, your MP is low. Subbing /WHM or /BLM or even /SMN will give you alot more MP allowing for less downtime. Second of all, our accuracy sucks because our highest weapon rating is a B. Also, even if you do connect your hits, it will only be for 0-15 against ITs. By connecting your hits, you give the monster TP. The Monster gains TP the same rate so if a DRK hits the monster for 75-100, the monster gets the same TP as if you hit the monster for 0-15. With you meleeing and barely damaging the monster, he gains TP faster and thus, will be allowed to use his special attack faster, which is bad for the group.

My advice more maximum xp is RDM should not melee. If you want to Lv your sword skill, go solo. Please do not gimp your group by meleeing.

Of course, you purchased the game so you should be allowed to play the game anyway you like ^_^;;

[maytrix]

Make a deal with him. Let him melee to cap his weapon each level and after that he goes all out mage. If he can't reason with that than kick his ass out the group.

[Digital]

Re: RDM and melee?

Originally posted by Beaginator
Hello, I'm currently a level 52 BRD. I've got a few questions about RDM.

I have a RDM friend (I think he's level 53 now) who I party with pretty frequently, and he really really likes to melee.

I don't really like it when he does this, as it makes it pretty much impossible to give him the mage songs (ballad, etude) when he's right next to the melees. It's pretty infuriating being forced to give him melee songs.

Also, he does not rest in between battles because he wants to be able to do his WS. He only comes to the backline and rests when he's out of MP and has no convert.

We've been leveling in Quicksand Caves versus Anticans for the last few levels, and he is constantly being hit by that nasty AoE silence ability. If I'm lucky enough to be in the backline at the time, I'm forced to Silena him, or the WHM has to do it.

I haven't played RDM much at all, so I don't really know a lot about their melee capabilities at level 53. I never really thought of RDM as a melee job, but I'd like some other opinions about this, please.

He should know not to melee with a BRD in the PT, that's common sense.

He runs out of MP?! An RDM...out of MP?! I'm Elvaan and I don't run out of MP. He needs to rethink his game plan.

Does he not realize that a mage getting silenced is a bad idea? He's a support class that now needs support =/.

[Anakron]

I partied with a BRD just earlier today for about an hour, with my 28 RDM/14 WHM, and I, well, went melee. I can understand why a RDM wouldn't melee at higher levels with a BRD, but at 28, is it that big of an issue? I was contributing to SCs and MBs, tossing Paralyze, Slow, Gravity, and Dia on every monster, and was rarely, if even once, exclusively out of MP (as in if I were out of MP, the WHM was, too). I did rest between every battle.

I'm 29 now, and hopefully will hit 30 tonight, after which I will probably never melee again, but I'd like to know if that was a mistake that I made, so I'd know better in the future.

[Tomoh]

I melee all the time, but I make sure I Macro equip for MND and INT to cast spells which is my first priority. Meleeing is just what I do in-between spells to raise my weapon skills. This is the only way to play RDM in a PT. If a mob has area attacks that can hamper me, I stay back and cast only. In most cases, I don't get too many hits in since I'm busy casting or missing.

Personally with BRD, I just melee with front and cast there. Most Brds I've played with casts Ballads again after a battle for PLD and/or DRK anyways. I play it by situation to make sure that I'm efficient as possible. Efficient team play is the goal for most. At LV70, I have 39K exp to 71. How can I not want efficiency or expect the same from my PT members?

[Jonnyram]

I echo Tomoh exactly.
In the recent parties I've had with bards, Ballad has been played only between fights, and the bard asks me to join the other mage(s) at that point. RDMs don't usually have an MP problem, unless they're casting too much black magic.

[Digital]

I'll still have to disagree with the bard issue. How long do you actually have between fights? For a few seconds you get 6mp/tick, then you run back up and get ballad overwritten by melee songs. I'd rather keep my high mp regen and keep my sword uncapped until a brd-less PT. And you say you want efficiency from your PT members, but aren't you hindering the brd's efficiency when you lose ballad to get melee buffs?

[SharMarali]

Originally posted by Dtec

My advice more maximum xp is RDM should not melee. If you want to Lv your sword skill, go solo. Please do not gimp your group by meleeing.

Okay, I have to disagree with this. A RDM does not "gimp their group" by meleeing if they recognize that they are a MAGE first and foremost, everything else is secondary. In fact, I find that I have an easier time identifying when a dispel is needed, when a -na spell or erase is needed (when I'm SJ WHM), and when a magic burst is coming if I am on the frontline.

Why do you feel that where the RDM stands during a battle will make or break the PT's experience? I'm trying to figure this one out.

I'm a caster who has the ability to be on the frontline as well. I'm not an attacker who has the ability to cast. I recognize that my sword doesn't make a lot of difference to the PT as a whole, and if I get in a situation where it's best if I don't melee, I don't. If we're fighting something with AoE silence or max MP down or curse, I stay back where my ability to cast won't be affected. Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with standing wherever I want during a battle. I rarely, rarely, RARELY get any hate, so it doesn't affect the party in that manner. No one EVER has to ASK me for refresh, because I keep it on everyone with MP at all times. I keep haste on ninjas, when we have one. If I am SJ WHM, I use -na spells and erase. I get out dia, paralyze, slow, and any other enfeebles that are needed for the particular monster we are fighting out at the beginning of every battle. I backup heal attackers, and I put myself in charge of healing mages whenever mages get hit. Between battles, I run to the backline, or halfway to the backline, switch to my master caster's pole and rest. I don't try to renkei. I don't try to save TP. I don't use equipment to help my melee. If I have a BRD, I wait until they have done their two melee songs before running forward, although I do occassionally run forward too soon, but my MP never seems to be an issue between refresh, convert, and resting after each battle with my errant shirt and master caster's pole on. Please enlighten me as to how I am "gimping" my PTs by simply standing in a different location than the other mages..?

[Bamce Sylph]

i think the big issue everyone is missing is apparnetally his friend isn't a "good" redmage, how many of u meleed anticans alot? ae silence is fun right? while you may be able to manage casting and fighting it sounds like his friend is not, just kinda mindlessly hacking away (since beag made no mention of his casting routine) i've seen/hear of redmage who all they do is melee and cast refresh. so while some of our better redmages here may be able to manage meleeing and casting, there are those who can't

[DrowII]

I have had the same static party since level 15. Our bard has a system that allows me to melee next to the pally or stand back in the "mage zone" either way I get all the songs I need when I need them. I think you and your friend can easily work this out and he can do what he enjoys best. I will say that running out of mp is a big problem, and he should give up on skillchains. Also to help him out he should macro a dark staff when he rests to get the +10 healing mp. So that when he occasionally does a skill chain at the expense of medding mp he will not have to rest as long.

[Vinen]

I usually actually pull off healing about 100-200 mp healing during fights. I know when my group is doing chains so I can stand, I watch the animations of the monsters and memorize them so I know when to stand and remove a debuff etc. This is why I feel that healing during a fight is more important then meleeing. Then again im a taru and I cant hit the board side of a bard, with a 10 foot pole.

Most monsters I fight now, for xp, with the one expection of Greater Cockatrice have some sort of AE I dont want to be caught up in, Ladon (AE Dispell), Oviinik(when we have to kill one for crap xp cause its in the way --, when in Ro'Maeve the AoE Stun + Damage WS from Weapons, the AEs from Golems, this goes for when my group goes and XPs in The Shrine of Ru'Aviteu also when the other places are to crowded (Hate the trek there).

If you can hit the monster and it has no sort of damage AE yeah go for it melee. I know there was a post about this from some JP RDM talkin to NA RDM a while back around when this game came out that was REALLY good talking about when a RDM should melee and one shouldnt. I think it was the only good thing I ever saw come out of the IGN boards.