What is a good RDM Subclass?

[abbath]

I've been looking at a Black Knight and also a Dragoon... also Summoner sounds interesting as well. What do you guys think?

[Tempest198]

IMHO, a RDM should get a mage sub. At lower levels you can get by with any sub, but at higher levels I think it certainly pays to have a mage sub. Especially when you can start getting utility spells/abilities from said sub (Escape, Warp, MP conservation from blm, status cures, curaga etc from whm).

Personally I'll be going for BLM sub, but I'll have a WHM sub level'd too so I can change to WHM sub if the PT expects it from me.

[Gaunt]

For grouping you want either BLM or WHT, they are the only subs that really help you by increasing your mana pool, and thier inates compliment yours.

If you wanna solo low level monsters to farm gil etc, then having thief subbed (at least 10) for treasure hunter is good.

Melee sub to RDM prime does nothign cept add some hp, and since you heal anyway, those are useless, more mana would help you far more.

[Rekiem]

Im thinking that DRK could make a good sub for RDM, mostly if youre not a Taru. You would gain theses abilities: Arcane Circle, Last Resort, Souleater, Attack Bonus twice and you could also use their really nice enfeeblement spells like Absorb-MND.. etc They also give you some MP.

Black Mage would give you 72MP over subbing DRK and Warp. Reason why Im saying that DRK would make a nice subjob is that Im noticing that most RDM I play rarely use their black magic and stick to cure and enfeeblement while using their sword for damage so what happen is that they don't end up using the Magic Attack up bonus of the BLK. The sad part is that you lose Escape in this combo but look above and look at what you gain from DRK..

DRK would allow you to become a much better damage dealer than BLK while losing some MP and Warp.

[abbath]

I've looked at DRK mainly because I am actually an Elvaan Red Mage (not too common) so I do have a bit of strength.

[Icemage]

/DRK is a terrible subjob for RDM. RDM at higher levels have almost no attack ability, and adding a DRK's extra attack bonuses still won't help. Your weapon skills are low, your damage is low - all the attack and damage bonuses will do is make you slightly more effective in combat (and I do mean slightly), and make you lose out on a whole bunch of useful spells (not to mention magic-related traits).

There's a reason why the majority of RDM sub WHM or BLM - they are they subjobs that offer the most flexibility to a RDM.


Icemage

[Kosh]

One job left out...

What about summoner as a sub job? You would still get a good MP bonus. I know when you are a lvl 50 RDM, the lvl 25 esper would be weak... but what about using the pets strictly for their abilities? It seems like it might be worth having just for group "blink" and group "shell/protect".

I know you can't even get the SUM job until you are lvl 30 and you need to be around lvl 60 to beat the espers but it seems like it may be a good combo that is never talked about.

Any thoughts from some experienced players?

Thanks.

[Icemage]

About the only thing you'll really get out of /SMN is a few more MP and MP refresh. This isn't as cool as it sounds though - RDM get Convert (exchange your HP to MP and vice versa), as well as Refresh, so both of these traits aren't all that spectacular, plus your Fast Cast and Chainspell abilities have zero impact on summons.

Really the first tangible perk you get would be at RDM50/SMN25, when you'd get Auto-Refresh and (assuming you've got Garuda), party Blink.

The group Shell/Protect deal is so weak its laughable. Leave those effects to the professionals (WHM), since they'll have access to more powerful Protectra and Shellra spells than this effect.


Icemage

[Wind Adept]

I was planning on DRK as a subjob... I guess I'd use Black Mage as a sub-job, but wouldn't that lower Mind and physical attack? Also, many of the enfeeble abilities learned by Black Mages can also be learned by Red Mages and Dark Knights. Warp and Warp II are kind of interesting, though. I've never seen the use of Tractor, though. What is it supposed to do, make it easier for you to use Raise on your ally?

As my information shows, I'm planning on Hume for a well-rounded Red Mage, and along with that I'll be equipping a Dagger as they can give some pretty interesting TP abilities such as MP stealing (woo!).

I'm probably showing my FFXI-ignorance here, having only planned for the game and not played, but I can't seem to find the answer to this simple question:

Is item-use something that is never limited by job? I know that in a party, items are pooled together, and I'd guess that you could use them indefinitely, but I just want to make sure: having black mage as sub wouldn't be so bad if you could just use items to cure your status ailments.

[Secrenja]

Tractor is kind of useless, it moves a dead body to where your casting from. It could be used to lure your body away from a monster that would aggro you as soon as you ressurected. Its really more for fun uses :D

I was wondering about using dagger for RDM before, found out its not that great. Your AF weapon is sword, and later you can get some kickass swords specifically designed for you. Just a suggestion, either is fine, but I would take Sword(The MP steal would only work well if the enemy is magic caster also)

Status curing items, no use if you have a white mage. Plus they can get expensive(900 gil for a potion, 3k for an ether, 300 gil for an antidote)

[Arli]

Well, as RDM is an extremely versatile class, your SJ can be based on situation, but at higher levels the choice is pretty narrow.

RDM/WAR
Fun at early levels, makes soloing easier too. Practically useless combo after level 20. Provoking at level 30 as a RDM = minced mage.

RDM/WHM
Nice MP boost, nice boost to MND, status cures and Curaga. Some RDMs like this combo, but I only suggest it in a pinch or if you really like to be a cure tank. Divine Seal is nice. Useful for solo play in places with lots of poison etc.

RDM/BLM
Probably the ideal for the well-rounded RDM. Nice boost to MP and INT. Acess to Warp at SJ level 17 and the BLM Conserve MP Passive Ability at SJ level 30ish(?). This and Convert are a nice duo. Lets also look at some of the nice BLM AOE spells, Elemental Seal and nice spells like Drain relatively early in BLM levels (17).

RDM/THF
Gil Finder and Treasure Hunter are pretty sweet, and the ability to use Sneak Attack at later levels is cool, but melee is not our strong suit at levels 40+.

RDM/SUM
We consume an insane amount of MP as it is between both schools of magic. Why would you want to drain it even further with a summon. The PT-wide buffs are nice, but pretty much useless to a RDM solo since he/she can alredy cast Blink and En-class spells on themselves already. By the time you get the SUM Auto-Refresh, you've been casting Refresh for several levels. I think this is purely a novelty combo like RDM/NIN and doesn't have much use in PT play.

I think there was another thread discussing this with a much larger SJ breakdown - just dont' feel like repeating it.

Anyway, people need to remember that a RDM is STILL a Mage, even though they can carry a sword and wear light armor. SJing a melee class for a caster class may be fun at low levels but really limits your potential at mid levels and higher. Our role as debuffers remains strong, but our melee potential drops off considerably after level 30, and SJing a nuker class like BLM gives us that extra umpf in battle.

This is just my experience, if you find a combo that you like, go for it. Just realize, some PT leaders are very, very particular with recruiting players with effective job/support job combos for PT play.

[Mulkosaur]

For clarification Warp is a teleport spell right?

[Arli]

yup Warp is level 17 BLM spell that teleports you back to your Home Point. Not sure what level Warp II is though, but it allows you to teleport people back to their HP.

[mdares]

I'm curious as to y do our melee suck at 30 and higher? I personally havent noticed this yet tho i'm still just at 30.

the reason i think subbing a tank to a rdm might be good is in case of attracting aggro.. it's inevitable that it happens. and with the tank sub i can take and deal out a lot more dmg than other mages while still be able to perform their duties. plus with the extra hp and evasion/defense boosts that melee classes get, i can survive that much longer. Many times i've had to pull banshees and stuff away from my team simply because i could cast spells to heal them and myself while maintain and take all the aggro that the mob has and then some... True my dmg as of now is roughly 3-5 lower than other lvl 30 tanks but thats because i have yet to cap my sword skill for that lvl... ano0ther thing, with the added hp i can use more minus-hp-plus-mp gear with little effect on my survivability...

(btw i'm rdm/mnk for hte increased dex and vit over the war)

just my 2 gil...

[Koyasha]

Can't speak beyond 30, but even at 30 I remained a viable 'papertank' against all the things my group was fighting (Red Mage/Warrior, by the way). I'd much rather Provoke onto me than let it drop onto a White or Black Mage. I might not take damage near as well as a War, but I don't seem worse than a thief or any of the melee damage dealers.

It's undoubtedly not a tremendously effective combination, and doesn't play to our strengths that well, but it's somewhat useful at times, and a little different. I enjoy both, and when I come back to level my Red Mage further (currently doing Dragoon), I'll probably stick with Warrior sub for a while, at least.