Rng/brd???

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Rng/brd???

Better late than never:

/BRD is better than practically every other RNG subjob pre-24. Most offer nothing at all.

Hasso and Seigan "work" with a staff. I say "work" because most of Hasso's benefits (haste and melee ACC) don't apply to ranged. The STR applies, but RNG/SAM with Hasso active has only a bit more than RNG/WAR's base STR.

Seigan, however, is the real deal; my screenshot against Hydra as RNG/SAM has already been mentioned. I've found Seigan to be quite useful in providing an extra level of survivability. In fact, I sub SAM to nearly all events when I come as RNG.

As far as Thunder Staff goes, it appears that +crit weapons apply only to that weapon. Even if that were not the case, ranged crits are so weak (compared to melee crits) that I'm still not sure Thunder Staff would be worth it.

[Icemage]

Re: Rng/brd???

It's true that most subjobs don't do much for RNG pre-24, but I still think RNG/PUP is better than RNG/BRD (then again, /PUP is just a ridiculously good sub overall in the early levels - which is weird considering how weak Puppetmasters are later in the game).

That's disappointing about Thunder Staff. The Seigan effect s really cool, though.


Icemage

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Rng/brd???

/PUP seems great for really early on (pre-partying), but by the time you hit LV10, it doesn't seem like there's much point.

[Icemage]

Re: Rng/brd???

/PUP seems great for really early on (pre-partying), but by the time you hit LV10, it doesn't seem like there's much point.

Set it to mage frame and have it do some enfeebling magic (Dia, Poison... maybe Bio, don't know if it has access to Bio by that level instead). It'll also cast cures on you if you're < 50%. Plus it'll land some hits every once in a blue moon. More effective than having Paeon from /BRD IMO.


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Rng/brd???

It's true that most subjobs don't do much for RNG pre-24, but I still think RNG/PUP is better than RNG/BRD (then again, /PUP is just a ridiculously good sub overall in the early levels - which is weird considering how weak Puppetmasters are later in the game).

I thought both PUP and /PUP need to use Animator to get the Automaton to do anything? If that's the case, there goes the range weapon slot for RNG/PUP...

RNG/BRD seems useful Lv.10-19, but at Lv.20-23, other support jobs open seem to do more:

RNG/DRG or RNG/DRK - For Attack Bonus. (Can also jump when the mob runs up to eat your face, to make it madder. >_> )

RNG/WAR or RNG/PLD - For Defense Bonus (better than nothing, but I'd probably take /BRD over /WAR and /PLD).

RNG/SAM - For Store TP (10% more TP per hit).

RNG/WHM - For Cure, and because it's the default support job for a lot of JP players. With some juices, it may actually help the party.

Anyway, if RNG/BRD really sounds like your cup of tea, play COR instead, like someone else suggested earlier. Otherwise, it's just a Lv.10-19 support job option.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rng/brd???

Better late than never:

/BRD is better than practically every other RNG subjob pre-24. Most offer nothing at all.

OK then, let's just throw in /SMN as a great RNG sub too.

I honestly think its more worthwhile to use the subjobs you will be using in your long term career. RNG will not be singing at sky events or in manaburn. And keep in mind when people ask "is [insert oddball subjob here] good for [Insert main job here]?" sometimes what they really mean is "will this get me out of levelling a more expensive or more difficult subjob? Cuz I don't wanna do those, I just wanna level my main job."

While anything goes 1-30 its seems (god knows people sub /THF when it doesn't DO anything til level 30) its better not to procrastinate on things like /WAR and /NIN, you're going to go back and level them both anyway so there's nothing to be gained by limping your main ahead with another subjob. But if you want to create more work for yourself, go right ahead.

Hasso and Seigan "work" with a staff. I say "work" because most of Hasso's benefits (haste and melee ACC) don't apply to ranged. The STR applies, but RNG/SAM with Hasso active has only a bit more than RNG/WAR's base STR.

Seigan, however, is the real deal; my screenshot against Hydra as RNG/SAM has already been mentioned. I've found Seigan to be quite useful in providing an extra level of survivability. In fact, I sub SAM to nearly all events when I come as RNG.

This is good to know, I did have one of my RNG friends - who is also 75 SAM - check it out for me. The STR from Hasso is there with with staff even if we didn't get other benefits. His RNG was 67 though, so its good to see Seigan in action here and it looks nice.

Not to mention I had a kickass merit PT with a SAM/RNG recently, it's gotten me interested in levelling RNG to see how the reverse pans out. Seems like RNG would be the middle road between RNG/WAR and RNG/NIN.

RNG/WAR - Highest damage per shot and WS.
RNG/SAM - More efficient and frequent use of TP, Seigan/Hasso adding evasion/STR.
RNG/NIN - Highest overall accuracy via DW, Utsusemi to absorb single target attack/spells

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Rng/brd???

OK then, let's just throw in /SMN as a great RNG sub too.
I honestly think its more worthwhile to use the subjobs you will be using in your long term career.

And why is that? It doesn't make any sense to use a SJ before it's actually useful just for continuity's sake. That would be neglecting the entire point of being able to change subjobs.

RNG will not be singing at sky events or in manaburn.

How is this relevant to the dunes? Most jobs have drastically different roles at endgame, anyway.

And keep in mind when people ask "is [insert oddball subjob here] good for [Insert main job here]?" sometimes what they really mean is "will this get me out of levelling a more expensive or more difficult subjob? Cuz I don't wanna do those, I just wanna level my main job."

I consider that to be an irrelevant concern. If someone is going to refuse to level an appropriate subjob, then that's their choice. But if there is a level range where a SJ that they already have available happens to be the best option, why shouldn't they use it? Better to get some use out of it while you can.

While anything goes 1-30 its seems (god knows people sub /THF when it doesn't DO anything til level 30) its better not to procrastinate on things like /WAR and /NIN, you're going to go back and level them both anyway so there's nothing to be gained by limping your main ahead with another subjob.

Actually, there is something to be gained: having the best tools for the task at hand. You almost seem to approach the decision like it's impossible to change subjobs, so therefore one had better pick the "right" one and stick with it from 1-75.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Subjobs are situational.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Rng/brd???

Set it to mage frame and have it do some enfeebling magic (Dia, Poison... maybe Bio, don't know if it has access to Bio by that level instead). It'll also cast cures on you if you're < 50%. Plus it'll land some hits every once in a blue moon. More effective than having Paeon from /BRD IMO.

It was my understanding that you cannot use the mage frame unless you are 20main/10PUP, which seems too late to be useful.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rng/brd???

SO not playing another round of Dissect and Distort the Quotes with Spider-Dan.

Here's the short version of my previous post:

There is very little benefit to the player to level the main job ahead with a non-standard sub. /BRD might have some cute tricks, but the player is only wasting their own time by delaying the inevitable levelling of another subjob for the main.

Its procrastinating, beating around the bush, a colossal waste of time. If you have the time to waste, by all means, go for it. I'm just saying it's likely not the best way to go about it and if you really want to be a ranged attacker with buffs, you're really looking for COR, not RNG/BRD.

We all know subjobs are situational, but there's a difference between situational and a complete waste of time. Since I'm levelling SAM right now, perhaps I should level SMN alongside it since Carbuncle would make a reliable skillchain partner pre-30, right? OR I could prep THF instead and have it ready to go with WAR, NIN and RNG later on.

[Caspian]

Re: Rng/brd???

Regardless of whatever you may think the original poster was trying to get out of, this thread has since evolved into a discussion about the usefulness of less than normal subjobs for a few short levels, early in a RNG's career. Noone is saying that you /BRD should be your ticket to 75, nor is anyone saying that its unnecessary to level WAR and NIN as an appropriate sub. What is being said is that in a few short levels, very early in a RNG's career, that /BRD is a highly useful subjob. It wears out its usefulness very early on, but that does not discount what it can bring as a subjob pre-20.
Am I going to talk down to someone b/c they're not using /BRD pre-20? Ofcourse not, I didn't even have the job unlocked when I was leveling RNG in the dunes. Will I say something later than that if they are subbing BRD, especially the higher in levels you go? Most definately.
I don't understand why you're discounting its usefulness. Its been made clear that it shouldn't be used post-20, if someone does walk away with the understanding that its an appropriate subjob all the way to 75, then well, they fail at reading comprehension, and should make certain that they have leveled both NIN and WAR for the greater majority of their leveling with RNG.

[Raydeus]

Re: Rng/brd???

Its procrastinating, beating around the bush, a colossal waste of time. If you have the time to waste, by all means, go for it. I'm just saying it's likely not the best way to go about it and if you really want to be a ranged attacker with buffs, you're really looking for COR, not RNG/BRD.

I have most jobs leveled to at least 10 (except for DRG which is still lvl1), it didn't take more than a few hours to get them there. And from what I've seen most people has plenty of jobs leveled to at least 10 to try them out and stuff (including BRD), more than enough for RNG/BRD's life span.

So, while I agree that leveling BRD for the sole purpose of getting RNG to 20 could be a waste of time (if you have little time to play and no interest whatsoever on ever leveling or trying out BRD), that has nothing to do with BRD's usefulness as a sub for RNG before lvl24.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: Rng/brd???

Here's the short version of my previous post:
There is very little benefit to the player to level the main job ahead with a non-standard sub. /BRD might have some cute tricks, but the player is only wasting their own time by delaying the inevitable levelling of another subjob for the main.

Again, you're assuming that they don't already have both subjobs leveled.

Not only do many people have all the relevant SJs available, but a sizable portion (those who care about doing their job right) would have no problem leveling a SJ (to the ghastly heights of 10) specifically for low-level usage.

Its procrastinating, beating around the bush, a colossal waste of time. If you have the time to waste, by all means, go for it.

Once more, it seems the common thread in your posts is someone using /BRD to avoid having to level a SJ for later levels. Put simply, you aren't talking about the same thing as the rest of us.

I'm just saying it's likely not the best way to go about it and if you really want to be a ranged attacker with buffs, you're really looking for COR, not RNG/BRD.

It's this type of thinking that causes many people to bring useless SJs to the dunes... where you have every melee subbing WAR because "if I wanted to help cure, I'd be a mage." Then you sit around and wait for a mage to pop for 2 hours.

Rather than trying to make sure every job fits in its prescribed niche at all times, one should be thinking, "Which subjob can most effectively help me gain xp in the upcoming area?"

We all know subjobs are situational, but there's a difference between situational and a complete waste of time. Since I'm levelling SAM right now, perhaps I should level SMN alongside it since Carbuncle would make a reliable skillchain partner pre-30, right?

No, you should not. /SMN is useless for melees, for all sorts of reasons. But you already knew that.

The more accurate analogy would be using /MNK for a pre-30 THF; a SJ that is useless for the rest of your THF career, yet head-and-shoulders above the rest at low levels. By your logic, THFs shouldn't bother putting in the effort with /MNK.

OR I could prep THF instead and have it ready to go with WAR, NIN and RNG later on.

What does "prepping" THF have to do with which SJ you use as a pre-20 SAM? If you are talking about using THF as a pre-30 SJ, you're actively encouraging people to using gimped SJs (which pre-30 /THF is, without question) just so they can avoid a trip to the MH.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Re: Rng/brd???

Kitten, I understand where you're coming from. Don't worry about needing to respond back to "you know who," because most people on these forums know good and well how much of a troll the person is. lol

I'll be honest. If I'm in Valkurm, I'm -not- subbing WHM under RNG to be able to spend 3 cures on someone in party just to "make sure I have micromanaged and optimized my skills and effects in battle." I'm not bending a knee to lose 50TP either. Sure, I would sub BRD, I'm cool with that. I've done that before on a melee job. The effects were less than desirable I felt but, eh, numbers are numbers. I mean, for the most part, unless your a mage, who cares what you sub pre-19. Now, 20+, accuracy bonus and such are useful tools.

There's a difference between micromanagement, casual, fun playing, and laziness. The middle road is ususally best. (And if anyone thinks micromanaging stats to the point of obtaining a migrane is fun and enjoyable, needs their head examined then, no pun intended.)

[Icemage]

Re: Rng/brd???

There are a lot of people out there that are more than happy to dump a few levels into jobs that they're otherwise not interested in specifically to use as a low level subjob.

I should know, I'm one of them. I hate melee jobs with a passion, but I'm currently working on Monk, Warrior, Thief, and Ninja subjobs because I know I'll want them when I start working on Blue Mage (Monk as a sub for WAR and THF, which is why it's stopped at 18).


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Rng/brd???

There are a lot of people out there that are more than happy to dump a few levels into jobs that they're otherwise not interested in specifically to use as a low level subjob.

I should know, I'm one of them. I hate melee jobs with a passion, but I'm currently working on Monk, Warrior, Thief, and Ninja subjobs because I know I'll want them when I start working on Blue Mage (Monk as a sub for WAR and THF, which is why it's stopped at 18).


Icemage

I think its one thing to level a sub you don't like and another to sub something that has no long-term benefit for the main job. Yes, I know Dan would sing the praises of a BRD sub at every level of the game depending on the job, but we're talking rather small returns in contrast to BRD main can do at full power.

For Corsair, i'd never touch /BRD. If I want to be a refresh monkey, there are two other jobs more effective and consistant about it and I could go back to them if I really wanted to (I don't). Additionally, some jobs to have to consider subjobs for defensive abilites. Building a job for pure support on buff... well, enjoy losing your EXP. Building a job for pure melee output that makes more sense. But if you want to go and be BRD/COR, COR/BRD or BLM/BRD... you just have "fun" with that. For defensive ability, /WHM and /NIN are hard to dispute.

I'll level a WHM sub to benefit both my RNG and COR for endgame situations and I'm not looking forward to it. Its not fun for me, its a tedious chore, but I'm well aware of the benefits. I'm capable of playing full support if I want to, but if you're asking me to sub /WHM for EXP or merit you can kindly kiss my ass. Subjobs may be situational, but when I pay out the nose to level, I'll sub what I want to. That's my "situation." I'm not gonna touch /WHM till I have marksmanship and MP merits at a level that is satisfactory for me.

What does "prepping" THF have to do with which SJ you use as a pre-20 SAM? If you are talking about using THF as a pre-30 SJ, you're actively encouraging people to using gimped SJs (which pre-30 /THF is, without question) just so they can avoid a trip to the MH.

This is why you need to stop playing Dissect and Distort the Quotes. When you cite multiple parts of a post and attack each part separately, you start to lose the meaning of the whole original post. You eventually stir up arguments from things that aren't said at all and end up putting your foot in your mouth.

I never said anything about subbing /THF before it was useful, merely that its good to get /THF done as a sub before taking SAM all the way. Getting /THF done early is a more effective use of my time than experimenting with a subjob I won't use long-term.

That's a BIG difference from what you assumed I meant.