Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

If VIT and Defense really that useless?

If the monster's damage formula has the terms as the player damage formula, it would seem to suggest that how useful each additional VIT and/or Defense depends on how much a PLD currently has compared to the monster's STR and Attack. A PLD tank probably will want to lower the cRatio below 0.5 and get to the fSTR inflection point where it takes ~4 VIT to reduce base damage by one. Pass that, it may not be as helpful to pile up VIT and Defense.

I'm guessing it should be relatively easy to get to that inflection point on fSTR, but don't don't have a clue if reaching cRatio of 0.5 is practical or not.

* * *

In practice, the difference in damage taken "per hit" between turtling gear and "hybrid" gear is already noticeable, so I'd imagine it'd be the same with full DD setup. Many PLDs swear by full DD gearing, and propose that the additional damage output contributed that way is significant enough to shorten the fight to the point of actually needing less MP to cure per fight.

[Callisto]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

I think that could also be due to the significantly higher amounts of Refresh at higher levels, with a PLD able to hit 6-8/tick easily, they take a bit more damage but as you said fights are quicker, and they are able to Cure themselves more often without adding extra downtime, between that and their boosted DD they maintain hate much better, creating less need to cure the DDs, also lowering downtime.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

I think that could also be due to the significantly higher amounts of Refresh at higher levels, with a PLD able to hit 6-8/tick easily, they take a bit more damage but as you said fights are quicker, and they are able to Cure themselves more often without adding extra downtime, between that and their boosted DD they maintain hate much better, creating less need to cure the DDs, also lowering downtime.

If a PLD takes more damage per second, the PLD would need cures more frequently. If the PLD himself is to make up the difference, cure casting time would cut into his DoT and TP build rate, reducing the advantage of DD build.

Counting 3 MP/tick from Refresh, 1 MP/tick from Auto Refresh, and 1 MP/tick from Sanction, I see only 5 MP/tick most of the time. A DD PLD/WAR holding the monster will unlikely to get much use out of Parade Gorget due to the damage taken, unless there is down time. (If there's down time, then the advantage of using DD PLD to kill faster becomes a moot issue, doesn't it?)

Even less MP/tick, if working with BRD. My PLD was lucky to get one Ballad from BRD 75% of the time during a typical pickup group party, never mind double Ballad full-time. Even with BRD and RDM in a PUG, the odds of 6 MP/tick is rather low, since the BRD would likely not bother with trying to Ballad on PLD at all.

[Callisto]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

If a PLD takes more damage per second, the PLD would need cures more frequently. If the PLD himself is to make up the difference, cure casting time would cut into his DoT and TP build rate, reducing the advantage of DD build.

Counting 3 MP/tick from Refresh, 1 MP/tick from Auto Refresh, and 1 MP/tick from Sanction, I see only 5 MP/tick most of the time. A DD PLD/WAR holding the monster will unlikely to get much use out of Parade Gorget due to the damage taken, unless there is down time. (If there's down time, then the advantage of using DD PLD to kill faster becomes a moot issue, doesn't it?)

Even less MP/tick, if working with BRD. My PLD was lucky to get one Ballad from BRD 75% of the time during a typical pickup group party, never mind double Ballad full-time. Even with BRD and RDM in a PUG, the odds of 6 MP/tick is rather low, since the BRD would likely not bother with trying to Ballad on PLD at all.

Yeah you have a good point about the Parade latent not getting as much use like that, I was counting that and an occassional Ballad 2, in a non-roaming party(non-merits for the most part, thinking 60's Mount Z, etc) it's really just a matter of the party lining up correctly and the BRD not being an ass, granted both of those take a bit for granted, but when I was leveling up BRD I would stop the party and refuse to pull until the party lined up correctly, lol. You're correct at any rate, though.

[Armando]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

I don't consider it ineffective because it does next to nothing, I consider it ineffective because the opportunity costs are too high (i.e. I could be equipping something that would have a bigger impact in that equipment slot,) or because it takes too much of it to get a certain degree of damage reduction, depending on how you prefer to look at it.

Free VIT is always welcome in my gear set but I'd never trade off a Woodsman Ring for a VIT ring. I do, however, use Jelly Ring frequently, because taking a guaranteed 5% less physical damage is very much worth losing 2.5% hit rate when I'm getting walloped hard.

There's also the fact that PLDs naturally have very high VIT and we invariably have some extra VIT somewhere in our gear set even in a full Acc/Attack/STR set. If other game mechanics and the formulas for players tell me anything, the mob's fSTR can only go so low, and there's really no guarantee that I'll get the full benefit of an extra 8 VIT.

Also, Accuracy is one hell of a stat. It doesn't affect your damage output linearly, because it doesn't just make your normal hits and WS X% more accurate, it also increases the frequency at which you WS since it'll take you less time to land the hits necessary to get 100 TP. Damage output in itself also has multiple benefits (reduce battle time, indirectly reduces damage taken, increases your enmity generation, indirectly lets the other DDs do more damage, etc) whereas taking less damage only affects one thing: the ratio of the damage you take over time to the damage you and your healer(s) can recover over time. I consider it a "safer" choice (i.e. more likely to give the better outcome out of the two) to go with Accuracy than with VIT.

[Celeal]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

If there is a DNC in the party that uses Samba, I would go for more ACC+.

After all those updates for PLD, nowadays tanking in Exp. Parties a large % of damage reduction comes from the Shield (if skilled/geared properly), plus Flash and Sentinel.

You can always carry both Defensive set and ACC+ set to parties and mix-match accordingly. Try to find the *balance* is the way to go.

[Klumps]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

Question/re-direct - was going to post my own thread but the title of this one fits the bill. I'm current at level 50 on PLD, my gear is as follows:

TM Espadon (have +2 ready and waiting)
RK Army Shield
IM Armet
Medieval Collar
Drone Earring / Merc. Earring (always wearing in XP) - also Beetle +1 x2
IM Cuirass
RK Mufflers
Unyielding Ring / Venerer's Ring
High Breath Mantle
Lifebelt
IM Cuisses
Kampfschuhs

I'm currently sitting on about 300k; once I sell everything I plan to sell I should be at about 450kish. Haubergeon goes for 300k on Remora; Woodsman Rings are about 200k. I'd rather not drop below 200k total while in flux as I don't want to have to rely on a bunch of things selling to buy Hauby at 59, and I want to have money to play with to level other jobs (need to take thf 18->25 (mostly a vanity thing for flee when farming) and blu 7->? (I'll use this sub for raising skill in other weapons and leveling the adventuring fellow)).

So, anyway, here's some gear changes I was looking at through 59 (some immediate, some not-so-immediate):

IM Armet (15k) -> Rival Ribbon (100k)? Valkyrie's Mask (110k)? -> AF?
Medieval Collar (8k) -> ? Parade Gorget not really an option; should I just wear this until RG Collar (10k)?
Mercenary's Earring (50k) -> ? Should I just wear the beetle +1 until Spike Earring (25k)?
Drone Earring (7k) -> ? Should I just wear the beetle +1 until Spike Earring (25k)?
IM Cuirass (30k) -> Jeridah Peti (25k) -> Haubergeon (300k)
RK Mufflers (15k) -> Fourth Division Gauntlets (20k)
Unyielding Ring (80-95k) -> ? Is a Woodsman Ring (200k) worth it given my money constraints?
Venerer Ring (40k) -> I assume I'll be keeping this. I also have two phalanx rings...for a rainy day.
High Breath Mantle -> Good until Amemet Mantle (2k), right?
Lifebelt -> I assume I'll be keeping this for a while.
IM Cuisses (20k) -> RK Breeches (65k) / AF
Kampfschuhs (40k) -> AF is pretty much the bees knees, right?

I could maybe squeeze another 60k out of the mog house gear (have some level 40 cap gear I've been keeping on the off chance I do some BCNMs). I have um...*cough* 400 beastmen's seals (yes, 400), but no static to BCNM with. I was halfway eyeing the level 40 3-man slime one, which I could do with my brother (44 rdm) plus one DD, but finding a good DD that's trustworthy and has their head screwed on straight, AND has enough seals to contribute (my bro has around 200) could be difficult.

I'm currently sitting at 303 defense as pld/war with pro3 - around 380ish with fish kabob. I didn't see a huge gain going from 330ish to 380ish (when I hit 50 and got defense bonus 3 and some armor upgrades), but I'm not sure if that means I need just a little more defense to hit an attack vs. defense tier vs. xp mobs (mmm...level 56-59 at this level, I guess), or if it's so far out of reach that I'm better off focusing on something else.

I'm kinda stuck on what I should be focusing on - I tank fine, of course - I'm a PLD! If a few gear swaps would make me 10-15% better at...something (either damage intake or output - enmity doesn't seem to be an issue), though, without breaking the Hauby fund, I feel like I should make the effort, yes?

So... I guess the immediate questions are:

1) What earrings should I be using? Should I dump the Drone's and Merc's and just use the Beetle +1s until 55?

2) What helm should I use? Valkyrie's Mask seems like the obvious choice, given I'm not hard-up for enmity, but I'd feel better with an attaboy. Pursuant to the next question, would it make sense to then switch it out for AF at 56 to be able to keep Woodsman and Hauby?

3) What rings should I use? Will I see enough immediate gain from switching to Woodsman to justify the cost, given that I'd likely need to sell it to afford a Hauby later on, and all the PITA that entails?

Any (good) advice is appreciated - thanks!

[Quetzalcoatl]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear



OMG... are u gonna takePLD to 75?
if so...why u wanna gear ur PLD for melee instead of tankin?

well w/e seems like the "tank" stile has changed from wehn i lvl my PLD.

i focused on VIT/DEF stuff not on ATT/ACC...but well is ur PLD so gear it they way u want.

IMO. AF is the best u can use till Adaman(keep the AF boots pls) and Parade is like a must have for a PLD at lvl 50.

[Vandros]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

IM Armet (15k) -> Rival Ribbon (100k)? Valkyrie's Mask (110k)? -> AF?
Medieval Collar (8k) -> ? Parade Gorget not really an option; should I just wear this until RG Collar (10k)?
Mercenary's Earring (50k) -> ? Should I just wear the beetle +1 until Spike Earring (25k)?
Drone Earring (7k) -> ? Should I just wear the beetle +1 until Spike Earring (25k)?
IM Cuirass (30k) -> Jeridah Peti (25k) -> Haubergeon (300k)
RK Mufflers (15k) -> Fourth Division Gauntlets (20k)
Unyielding Ring (80-95k) -> ? Is a Woodsman Ring (200k) worth it given my money constraints?
Venerer Ring (40k) -> I assume I'll be keeping this. I also have two phalanx rings...for a rainy day.
High Breath Mantle -> Good until Amemet Mantle (2k), right?
Lifebelt -> I assume I'll be keeping this for a while.
IM Cuisses (20k) -> RK Breeches (65k) / AF
Kampfschuhs (40k) -> AF is pretty much the bees knees, right


Head: I used Rival Ribbon until AF, though the Valk/Walk mask line is a nice choice if you wish a little more attack.
Neck: I'd highly recommend getting Parade, but as you said it wasn't an option, you are correct on your choices. Unless you happen to have a PCC just floating around anyway.
Earrings: Buckler. Shield skill is much love. Beetle/Spike works well for the other one.
Body: Also have the option at 55 of the Royal Knight body, and then Hauby of course at 59.
Hands: 4th Division were not around when I lvled Pld in that range, but seem quite nice, I'd use them.
Belt, Back, Legs and Feet you seem set on.
Rings: Ven/Woodsman would be your best bet, and you can use them on any other job you happen to level, so it makes for a great investment.

Overall, get a buckler earring, get the hauby! And then if you have money, go for the acc rings.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

The Jeridah Peti and the Hauby aren't worth it at the levels you get them. I almost always tank in my AF due to enmity.

There is only one backpiece worth taking the High Breath Mantle off for - Cerberus Mantle.

Get the Buckler Earring and invest in a Mercenary's Earring. a Drone suffices if you can't afford the Merc. I never take my Buckler Earring off if I'm shield tanking.

I Kept the IM Armet until AF. I have no disputes with your Neck options.

Unyielding ring is awesome. Also think about the Mermaid's Ring for Flash macros.

It's gotten to the point where I macro in the Hercules' and Mermaid's rings for Flash and both Woodsman for WS.

Yeah, you keep lifebelt until 71. And even then, there are times where I'd rather use it than the Warwolf. Only t he Trance Belt wins, and that's due to a marginally higher enmity. (+1)

[Roo]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

I levelled my pld years ago now, so I will attempt to refrain from commenting directly on your gear options. At your current level however you're going to be looking towards colibri, and crawlers I believe. Be careful giving up too much defense because you can't use food with colibri. Until I'd say 55 give or take turtle tanking isn't a bad idea on the birds just because they won't be dying super fast. Also birds in general seem to have higher evasion then most mobs so added acc might benefit you more then added attack. Hitting for 20 dmg is better then wiffing.

There is only one backpiece worth taking the High Breath Mantle off for - Cerberus Mantle.

Valor Cape? Not trying to be contrary, just offering another option. Hp + extra enmity is a win for me, but then again I'm a tarudin.

Over all I'm in the camp of enmity/haste/HP because of my current situation. When I do level cap I usually end up wearing acc rings and HP earrings. I haven't bothered to check what rings/earrings the pld in my current xp set uses, I know his other job is nin so I'm going to wager on woodsmen rings. I know he swaps in his hauby and his vermy situationally. Hauby a lot of the time when I don't sub thf and someone in our pt pulls hate. Lastly the parade gorget really is sort of a foundation piece for paladins, just about every 75 can solo the NM if they know what they are doing, ask friends or friends of friends if they don't mind helping.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

Lastly the parade gorget really is sort of a foundation piece for paladins

The Parade Gorget seems to run contrary to my preferred tanking style; I usually like a fair chunk of my HP missing, so I can get toss in cures for enmity whenever necessary. (Obviously, not for monsters with one-shot capabilities.)

Currently, my gorget is a macro'ed in piece in Cure III and Cure IV macro; I hit a "defense set" macro which swap it right out for Shield Torque when I'm not in white HP. The couple of times I've forgotten it and left the gorget in the Mog House didn't seem to cause much MP problems at all.

IMO, the Parade Gorget is more important for PLD/NIN and DRK than for PLD/WAR.

[ItachiKujata]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

Gear is almost always situational... if you're fighting IT++ stuff and you're lacking on healing support, i'd gear more towards VIT/DEF than DD. However, if you're fighting VT or even low IT, then you'll probably get the most out of DD gear. Most merit parties kill things fast enough that you don't really tank but pretty much just first voke... in those situations going PLD/NIN and gearing towards DD will help the party more.

Being a good PLD means you can be flexible enough to change when the situation calls for it. XP parties are usually easy and you can't really mess up things in terms of gear... End game though is another story...

I think the old turtle tanking style mentality has it's place but I think it's a little out dated as you get closer to 75 and especially in merit parties.

[Celeal]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

IMHO, Hybrid-DD (full time) below level 65 is too early. Hybrid tanking is great in Imps camp (Amnesia), or DD heavy + very weak mobs (low HP, die fast) --- which Provoke, Flash, and JA timers are not fast enough to keep up.

In a typical party below level 65, there are only a few camp + party setup that is worth for Hybrid-DD style. As your PLD approaching 75, more Hybrid-tank option will open up.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Low/Mid Level PLD Gear

I wasn't marginally good doing Melee-PLD until 70.

It was at that point, with over 20 Enmity in gear + dorado sushi that I realized how dangerous the combo is.