Just something I've noticed lately

[JP_Ikari]

Thanks guys, so pretty much the minute I hit 50, it's about how well my equipment and my food (fish mith or steamed crabs?? I'm about to cook Fish mith's, but considering how expensive the ingredients are, I may look for steamed crabs). As for how to hold hate at 50+, I guess you really can't say until you experience the BLM's going nutxors on their AM or Barrage happy Rngs. That's insane, more like an uphill battle for us just to keep hate. Well, it's a challenge that I myself can't wait for. Being that the PLD's are the MT's (main tanks) of this game.


Ikari

P.S. Biteman, hehe no worries, I know it wasn't directed to me >_< b

[Artonis]

Yea no...I'm not saying you're doomed.

I'm simply saying if you don't have an idea of what's going on, and are relying completely on someone else tellng you how to hold hate instead of figuring it out for yourself.

well

people won't be able to tell you how to hold hate in the 50's. How you hold hate entirely depends on monster and PT.

Loial, Rock on for the Galka,
Desert stone, level? and it's a belt right?

My party and I have an understanding. It seems harsh but it's like this

I'm the tank, and I'm going to tell you how much damage you can do without taking my hate. If you go over that cause you get spam happy, that's your fault and you can tank till I can get the hate back. If you go over from a crit...or two crits in a row, it won't matter cause I'm not losing hate to your crits

Freeze bursting doesn't happen till the last half of the fight, and never without the BLM lined up behind me.
Suffice it to say I prefer to end the SC that she bursts on simply because I get more damage in before the burst.

Yea, anyway. Tanking in 50's where everyone and their dog can strip hate from you if they want to, is all about understanding. If your party members don't want to take damage, then they'll listen to you when you tell them what you need them to do

But you still need to know what you're doing

[Ungerpurr]

I love a good pld tank, but the fact is level 50-60 puts you back into catchup mode, trying to get back to the hate-holding god you were from level 37-50. By the time you make it to 60, you'll have learned a lot more about holding hate, or what to do when you lose it, than you did from 1-50.

And if you think plds have a hard time holding hate...take a look at ninjas w/ no thf in the PT. I could hold hate better as a monk, if I wanted to drain my PT's MP bars every fight.

[Durahan]

If you're losing hate to a ranger who is using barrage at the start of the fight, or a blm who is constantly nuking, it isn't your fault. Just as we should know how to do our jobs by now, they should know how to do theirs, and cut back on the major nukes until we have enough hate. I was in a party a few days ago, and the skillchain was going off at the very beginning of the fight 50% of the time, with a 750 blizzaga 2 MB. Needless to say I lost the hate a lot and had to scramble to get it back (Usually covering the blm) until they finally realized to wait until at LEAST my second provoke before going off.

Anyway, Biter I wasn't saying that hate comes naturally. I was just saying that at this level, you know exactly how to hold hate, and it isn't as hard. It still takes a lot of work, more so then before 50 even, but you've been doing it so long that you don't really take notice anymore. Ikari, I used to eat fish miths but now my friend makes me boiled/steamed crab for free. You're fine with boiled.

[DirtClodimus]

Bitterman,

I wasn't suggesting 'natural' for a paladin holding hate as meaning that it's easy and that it doesn't take work. What I meant by 'natural' was that it should come natural to you as a way of thinking. I really do think it's a way of thinking that Paladins have that makes them good Paladins. It should be 'natural' in thinking of ways to keep your hate up. If something pulls the hate away from you, you should get the point of not having to think about how to get it back.

I never said the job was easy, but in order for a good Paladin to do their job, the other people in the party really need to know what they were doing as well. For example, we had a Ranger in our party last night. He was so proud of how much damage he could do... which he did do a lot of damage. However, he would often use his high damage WS at the beginning of a battle, and it would take quite a bit for me to get it off him the rest of the fight. Luckily, we were killing stuff quick enough that he would not have to tank too long in these situations. Cover saved his butt a couple times too. I have a feeling that he's going to need to learn a bit on how to control himself of he may die a bunch later on.

[JP_Ikari]

Originally posted by Durahan
If you're losing hate to a ranger who is using barrage at the start of the fight, or a blm who is constantly nuking, it isn't your fault. Just as we should know how to do our jobs by now, they should know how to do theirs, and cut back on the major nukes until we have enough hate. I was in a party a few days ago, and the skillchain was going off at the very beginning of the fight 50% of the time, with a 750 blizzaga 2 MB. Needless to say I lost the hate a lot and had to scramble to get it back (Usually covering the blm) until they finally realized to wait until at LEAST my second provoke before going off.

Anyway, Biter I wasn't saying that hate comes naturally. I was just saying that at this level, you know exactly how to hold hate, and it isn't as hard. It still takes a lot of work, more so then before 50 even, but you've been doing it so long that you don't really take notice anymore. Ikari, I used to eat fish miths but now my friend makes me boiled/steamed crab for free. You're fine with boiled.

Cool thanks Dura, appreciate it. I know people say Steamed, but damn it it's so hard to hit that HQ items when you yield 1 out of 13 ; ;, so I'm sticking with boiled crabs for now. Until I hit 50 and start getting more cash than I can atm ; ;. Beadeux is tough when you're only 45, you can't get to the dude that drops the Holy Phial without getting worried about aggroing the high level (the ones on top of the ledges aka 2nd floor so to speak) mobs .

Ikari

[Zalius]

My friends and I have a saying... Hate control is a PARTY job not just the paladin's job alone. The party can make it easy or very hard for the paladin to keep hate. Good example was this jp rng I partied with that loved to do a 1500+ dmg sc at the dead start of the fight. Pretty much after that. the rng tanks the rest of the fight. >_<. I do think Paladins need more hate control abilities though, we just don't have enough.

[Loial]

Desert stone, level? and it's a belt right?

It's a level 50 belt... MP+40 Dex-5 Int+3 Chr+2

At first, I was apprehensive about the Dex-5. Chances are, at 50 you are sporting a Life Belt. So going from Acc+10 to no Acc and Dex-5 seems a bit worrisome.

But don't forget you can always swap out the Life Belt if you want. I don't anymore. I think I got +155mp gear at this point... and the last thing I swap out is the Desert Stone. Why? I've experienced no problems whatsoever holding hate with my lousy Dex and Acc. I still get enough TP to help my PT finish off Chain 5 with Spirits Within(Go go Galka HP!)... and against IT High Eva mobs, don't expect Vorpal Blade to do all that much damage.

So, I've found the Desert Stone to be not be a "must" for a Galka PLD but certainly a priority.

As for Artonis' nice way of putting "I'm the tank and this is how much hate I can hold" ... I'd say that is a less eloquent way of saying that "managing hate is the PTs job." If you have a PT that communicates well, then as long as you are pushing yourself to the limits, then the PT can perform to their limit.

The RNG in my static doesn't need to hold back. Hell, sometimes she pulls with freakin' Barrage. Of course, she can steal hate at will, and I know that. But, I make the best use out of every ability I have so that I can keep the mob's attention while the PT takes down the mob as quickly as possible.

[LionhartPLD]

50 is when a paladin really starts to shine. but if you're being frusturated with it at 40 it may not be for you. I had my share of troubles at low levels ( I didnt get flash til 40, since no one really knew what it was ). But if you really like it just stick with it. It's not difficult fi you know what you're doing and have the right mindset. I dont really agree with this guy saying hate holding needs to come natural. While I do feel very natural with playing paladin and everything just comes to me and I know what im doing, I still think that someone else who doesnt can be a good paladin also.

[Lakai]

Its natural once you've experienced enough. Like riding a bike, sure you might be pretty good without the training wheels, but you aren't a pro. Time is experience and things get better in time... unless the peron is some sort of absurd ignoranus(sp?) and never learns from their mistakes o_O;;

[Artonis]

I'll look into that Desert Stone.
I currently need in the upcomign levels: Cure IV, Holy, Royal Guard Shield, RK Chainmail, Gluttony, 2x Chersobyl rings.

[Somajan]

If you can't feel a connection between your character, and how you play the game, you end up losing the great experiences and feeling of playing the game to the fullest extent.

Especially when you're tanking, if you can't appreciate the skill that you yourself have while holding hate from a monster, and the general gratification of being good at what you do.

You could have the absolute best equipment available to help you do your job correctly, but if you can't play with emotion or any sort of feeling, whether you fail or succeed, then you're totally losing the purpose of playing the game.

Being able to play the game, and being able to feel the hate loss between a monster and yourself even after each member does a single point of damage, or recovers your hp, helps your skill immensely. Without it, you'll lose any and all fun with this game.