Just something I've noticed lately

[Artonis]

50 levels later into PLD, still going strong. and not hating my job.

But I'd like to offer a smidge of advice to new paladins and 20ish'ers

I've found in my leveling, that hate keeping has come naturally. I picked up quickly what I need to do when, and being a galka it helps cause as Loial said, with limited MP we really learn what holds how much hate and when.

On that note, by the time you're 35 at most, if you are still actively thinking about holding hate (exceptional situations excluded) then PLD probably is not for you.

I'm only saying this for the sole reason that I and most PLD I know, hate holding is like a natural thing for us. We don't think about it.

If you have to think about it you're losing time. And with all the help and advice in the world, if it isn't coming naturally, if you're not planning your own hate holding strategies 35+ and are relying on others...then again, it may not be for you.

I'm not saying that if you fit into what I've said give up PLD now you're lost. Some people REALLY want to be PLD and I respect that. I'm just saying if you're walking through the game, and having problems before 35, it's not going to get easier after.

[Bleak]

Giving up at 35:confused: :confused:
dont listen just wait till 37 you get Flash. all you need to do is Provoke ->Flash ->Shield Bash. Next pull do the same thing but replace Shield Bash with Sentinal oh and voke every 30 sec its not hard to keep hate

[DirtClodimus]

I'd have to agree that holding hate should come naturally for a Paladin, but I also agree that you should at least keep playing a Paladin till 37 before you decide if you can hold hate or not.

Flash changes things quite a bit. At first, I didn't realize how flash worked, exactly, but now that I'm getting used to it, it really helps in holding hate. I really didn't have a problem before in holding hate, but Flash just makes it that much better.

I debated a long time on whether I wanted to play as a Paladin, being a Galka. I was almost convinced by some people not to do it because of the lack of MP, but I'm glad that I decided to continue on as a Paladin. Gear can easily make up for the lack of MP, and as you know, MP isn't everything to a Paladin. I can make due with little MP and still hold hate decently well when a puller pulls w/out being a full med.

I also like the comments that I get for the amount of HP that I have when people join our party Just figured I'd share my $.02 and send out a little Paladin love

[JP_Ikari]

I just got a concern, and it's the biggest one I have. I ran into a barrage freak ranger, and 50% of the time I lose hate. Now how do I keep that from ever happening?? I mean I tried everything, flash, voke, shield bash, sentinel and 1 barrage from that ranger and it's all gone before every JA and MA got refreshed. But this was when we were fighting the flies in CN. When we switched to the beetles down in Garlaige, it was a different story. Maybe it just depends on the mob we kill?? Any suggestions if I run into these type of problem?? Oh btw Art, grats man, and to think you were just concerned on your 40 equipment and here you are, first Genkai already :D. Good job man, you're making me want to play even more, but maybe after this tourney I have to go too.

Ikari

[Gryff]

Rangers get a damage bonus vs flying monsters.

^^

[Macht]

Originally posted by JP_Ikari
I just got a concern, and it's the biggest one I have. I ran into a barrage freak ranger, and 50% of the time I lose hate. Now how do I keep that from ever happening?? I mean I tried everything, flash, voke, shield bash, sentinel and 1 barrage from that ranger and it's all gone before every JA and MA got refreshed. But this was when we were fighting the flies in CN. When we switched to the beetles down in Garlaige, it was a different story. Maybe it just depends on the mob we kill?? Any suggestions if I run into these type of problem?? Oh btw Art, grats man, and to think you were just concerned on your 40 equipment and here you are, first Genkai already :D. Good job man, you're making me want to play even more, but maybe after this tourney I have to go too.

Ikari

Be glad you haven't had me in a party. Some reason I've been able to pull hate from every PLD I've met with Barrage, but then again my Barrage for some reason seems to have a great deal better accuracy then any other RNG I've met so far.

[Durahan]

Once you learn how to hold hate, it's cake. I can hold hate half asleep now. There have been times over the past few days where I've almost fallen asleep, but still held hate. Provoke every 30 seconds, Flash, throw in Cure IIIs every now and then, alternate sentinel and shield bash every fight, and hit that 300% Spirits Within when you can.

[Biterman]

If you guys think Flash, JA and Provoke is all you need to hold hate from an uber equipped gun wielding RNG before you get your full AF, then you are day dreaming. (Not referring to you Ikari ^^)

The game is not the same at every level, how you hold hate in your 20's, 30's changes at the 40's and so on. Hate management is an entirely new ball game once the meeles get access to some cool toys, mages learn Ancient magic, new powerful WS get adquired et al.

Hate doesnt come natural to PLD, thats BS. You have to learn and adapt to your PT and their levels. I mean a WAR can tank just fine, maybe better in some situations, than a PLD in the first 30 lvls. Your voke strenght is about the same, defense doesnt vary much and he is hitting much harder than you. Abilities? We have shield bash, thats it, big deal. You have cures sure, but even being taru or other race with astrals and some RSE you still dont have refresh. Most juices dont even compare to Refresh.

You also have to think how well equipped, in general, other players are in their first 30-40 levels compared to once they hit 50. Chances are, that lvl 35 DRK isnt updated and its not hitting for all he could and that at 55 the DRK in your PT has some very nice setup and its really unleashing onto the mob (not saying DRK is the best DD or otherwise, it just an example) and again as meeles go up in lvl they get access to some great gear. And I know that still at lvl 50+ there are players that dont have a clue, newbies if you will, but at least they go down in numbers.

So my whole point is, if you think what you are doing now is going to stay for the rest of your PLD career then you are in for one big surprise.

[falloutboy14]

One thing that I've learned that will help is to save flash for the WSs. This way, if it does turn, you can flash it, and get 5 seconds to regain hate. If flash doesn't get you hate, you now have 3 seconds to line up cover(if theres no thief in the party, some rangers will do sidewinder behind you to make this easier). Cover should last 10 seconds so by now, you should be able to provoke again, if not and the ranger or other melee takes some hits, throw em a Cure III or IV. If that doesn't do the trick, then hopefully the ranger will learn, or you can use invincible. That always does the trick.

[Nemes]

Originally posted by Biterman
If you guys think Flash, JA and Provoke is all you need to hold hate from an uber equipped gun wielding RNG before you get your full AF, then you are day dreaming. (Not referring to you Ikari ^^)

The game is not the same at every level, how you hold hate in your 20's, 30's changes at the 40's and so on. Hate management is an entirely new ball game once the meeles get access to some cool toys, mages learn Ancient magic, new powerful WS get adquired et al.

I agree with most of what Biterman said. I've never had any problems keeping hate before level 50, then at 50 the BLMs go crazy with their ancient magic, and you're still stuck thinking how easy holding hate is.

And then at level 55 RNGs get Sidewinder. If you didn't know, a good RNG can do 900-1200 on monsters right there. That's not including the 100 or so attacks he does every now and then. Keeping hate from that is not easy.

Hell, I think it's not even a matter of it being hard to keep hate or not. It's more of a matter to how much mp you wanna spend on that battle to keep hate. At least that's what I think... 'cause in the end, even if you spent 250+mp per battle and you do keep hate, you're gonna make everyone else wait sooner or later... It's all in the balance I believe.

[Durahan]

Who was Biterman directing his post to?

[Biterman]

To anyone who thinks and gives the impression that just because you are a Paladin you can keep hate as if it was nothing. If a PLD is doing a half ass job and still keeps all the hate, its most likely him/her is in a half ass PT.

Hate to a PLD is not 'natural', you have to work for it. Sure, full AF really helps your cause, but its not like you dont even have to try to keep the hate. If someone doesnt believe me, just go post a dare at the RNG forum saying they can go all out after lvl 55, even with war sub, and you can still keep hate with nothing but one JA per battle, vokes and some cures. They will laugh their ass off. ^^

[greysenn]

I just got a concern, and it's the biggest one I have. I ran into a barrage freak ranger, and 50% of the time I lose hate. Now how do I keep that from ever happening?? I mean I tried everything, flash, voke, shield bash, sentinel and 1 barrage from that ranger and it's all gone before every JA and MA got refreshed. But this was when we were fighting the flies in CN. When we switched to the beetles down in Garlaige, it was a different story. Maybe it just depends on the mob we kill?? Any suggestions if I run into these type of problem?? Oh btw Art, grats man, and to think you were just concerned on your 40 equipment and here you are, first Genkai already :D. Good job man, you're making me want to play even more, but maybe after this tourney I have to go too.

Rangers tear flying stuff to pieces. They need to hold back on them, or they will be tanking the entire time.

Hard shelled mobs, like beetles and crabs we still do good damage, but if you're working, you should have no problems keeping hate off of a well equipped ranger. I am hoping this will change at 55

As for barrage, they need to be doing that late in a fight. (Mob below half life, or preferably barrage > mob dead.) There is no way you're going to get hate back effectively without blowing a lot of mana and JA's if they do it early.

[Dark Aphalite]

I think you are wrong.

Take me for example:

I leveled DRG to 52 then decided not to take it any further and choose a "useful" job, PLD
Because I have played a damage dealer 99% of the time I am not used to have so much stress or worry.
As a DRG I simply engaged, jumped a few times then came back a few hours later to check if I had levelled up yet. XD
Now as a PLD I am constantly in the action and this is very different styles of play than I am used to so it is natural that I worry about keeping hate.
But I think me worrying about it is a good thing as I will never forget to Shield Bash, Sentinel or provoke.
If I started off as a PLD and was more relaxed then maybe I would forget to provoke and let the mages take some small bashing.
Well, I cannot know for sure but worrying about it hasn't caused any disadvantages to me so far.

[Loial]

as Loial said, with limited MP we really learn what holds how much hate and when.

/cheer Artonis!
No one but the Galka can understand that concept!

Try and save up for a Desert Stone... I just got one in my 60s (didn't have the 500k back then). I have more MP than I know what to do with. But at least it translates into no downtime and extra MP to play with in case of links.

How you hold hate MUST adapt to your PT, the type of mobs you are fighting, as well as your level.

Bleak is kind of correct in his statement regarding Provoking, flashing, using one of Shield Bash/Sentinel and a cure here and there to keep hate... but that is only true from 37-50. If you learned exactly how much hate other PT members are generating, the only thing that ever pulled hate off me in my 40s was Barrage.

Any RNG that uses Barrage in the first 50% of the battle is suicidal. There needs to be an understanding between PLD and RNG that Barrage shouldn't be used till 25% or less. You use your Cover then because that buys your PT 15 seconds or so to kill the mob. If you have Flash ready, you Cover...then Flash after cover wears to save the RNG 3 more hits.

A good PT should have 0 downtime once you got Refresh. In your 40s, you really can keep hate with minimal MP (if no Refresh) or minimal JAs (save abilities for when necessary if you have Refresh).

However, all bets are off when you reach 50. Level 50 is a smack to the face of a PLD. The hate generated by Flash certainly doesn't keep up with all the damage that melees can do or the Ancient Magics that BLM get. Therefore PLD need to either A) change their strategy to keep manage hate better (this includes upgrading gear, eating better food) or B) change jobs.

The number of PTs leveling past 50 is a LOT less than in your 40s. The chances of you running into PT members from the "other day" is very high. So, if you are a crappy PLD, they'll remember and you'll get passed over.

There is no "formula" really for hate control... well there is no technique of "Do this first, then that" outside of Provoke every 30 seconds. After that, it depends entirely on your PT makeup. My PT happens to have 2 THF and a RNG. There is a ridiculous amount of hate being tossed around from Dancing Edges and Sidewinders/Barrages that it makes my job so much better. Its not in the least boring.