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**Arnda** · 12-31-2003, 01:04 PM

The wacky part of being a PLD is we pretty much need every stat.

STR? Yup, our attack is so low that any benefit is a good one.
VIT? Pssssh, do I need to go into this?
DEX? Well, you don't hold hate well if you miss.
AGI? Tanks like dodging; so do healers.
INT? Well, we do have a FEW spells.
MND? Once again, we CAN and DO cast.
CHR? Errrr... well I heard it had something to do with Provoke, but that could be hearsay.
HP? Tank takes hits. Hits take HP. More HP good.
MP? Tank can heal. Heals take MP. MP restores HP. More HP good. More MP good.

And guess what? EVERYBODY is at least a little deficient in at least ONE of these areas (except humes, who aren't EXCEPTIONAL in ANY of them, but not BAD).

Galkas have problems with the casting stats and a chronic MP shortage, but are thick as bricks.

Elvaan have dodging issues, but strike hard and true and don't cast too shabby neither.

Taru are lacking in VIT and STR and HP, but have MP pools other PLDs would KILL for.

Humes are merely average; that's good and bad.

Mithra are, um, uncharismatic?

Point is, everybody needs some help in some category, which is why I don't think, all other things being equal, it's fair to say one PLD race is better than another. This isn't true of ALL jobs, mind you (Taru non-casting melees for instance, lose their biggest advantage entirely, whereas Galka non-casting melees lose their biggest DISadvantage), but in the case of the Paladin, it does sort of even out.

Not to start a debate on which race I think does the job "best." Every race has to tune their equipment to cover deficiencies and emphasize strengths. As long as the PLD has the right equipment FOR THEM, I feel they're a worthy tank. A Taru PLD, played well, is probably a lot more formidable than you'd think. But likewise, a Galka PLD played well will have MP long after you'd have figured they were dry. Emphasize your strengths, cover your weaknesses.

Oh, and I hear the stat calculators aren't always right(?).

**Brer Fox** · 12-31-2003, 01:39 PM

Mithra and Galka aren't charismatic because they're socially 'shunned' races in the storyline. Everyone seems to think of them as just civilized beastmen. It's like, if the goblins ever went totally pacifist and join the 'Enlightened Nations' they still wouldn't be very popular.

Of course, Mithra should have a dynamic CHA stat that increases or decreases due to the amount of clothing worn, if you know what I mean. ^ ^

**Mr. Black** · 12-31-2003, 02:05 PM

Yah yah... same with Galka!!! Less cloths ish sexey!!

Hoo-Haa!!

**Radamvice** · 01-01-2004, 02:22 AM

O.o

**Osir** · 01-01-2004, 11:42 AM

I prefer to run around with no shirt on. Galkas are way too buff for shirts.

**Pandar** · 01-02-2004, 12:57 AM

agreed
and my mithra has no equipment that adds clothin over her body
except weapons:sweat:

**Icemage** · 01-02-2004, 11:03 AM

The wacky part of being a PLD is we pretty much need every stat.

Say what?

STR - Not really. PLD don't generate enmity with their attacks. The fact that they are attacking at all gives them some enmity, but the difference of even 10 points won't make any difference here.

VIT - THE most important stat for a PLD. Low VIT = more damage = more MP the healers have to use on you, and less time for them to respond when Bad Stuff happens.

DEX - Hitting successfully is good, but +accuracy items are strictly better than +DEX for this. Not an important stat for PLD.

AGI - Dodging is great... if you're a THF. For PLD, with only mediocre Evasion, this is not an important stat at all. PLD's defenses are high VIT, high DEF, Shield Block, and Parry, not Evasion.

INT - Not terribly important. Helps you to resist damage from magical attacks, which can be a factor in some fights, but if I ever see a PLD casting Holy in a tough fight I think I'd smack them.

MND - More important than INT, but still not terribly important. Helps for resisting status attacks (Paralyze, Sleep, etc) as well as slightly increasing the power of your Cure spells.

CHR - I keep hearing the same rumors about Provoke, but again, not important enough to worry about boosting.

HP - Again, more HP is good. This is where Tarutaru PLD have the worst time at high levels, because they simply can't take hits the way an Elvaan or Galka PLD can. A 700 damage attack(Sickle Scythe) or spell(Tornado) on a Galka PLD at level 50 is merely painful (~1000HP). On a Tarutaru PLD, it's almost certain death(~800HP).

MP - Once you hit level 41+, PLD MP isn't all that important. Refresh + Mage's Ballad I/II songs will let you cast for a very, very long time, even as a Galka, as long as you have a bit of MP boosting items. Once you're over ~150MP, it really stops making much difference.

Icemage

**Elite** · 01-03-2004, 11:19 PM

Your looking at naked stats, these are all without buffs and thats simply not how it works in PT's now. When your in a PT you get buffs/vit + with food/your commitment to how good equips you buy. All these buffs will add extra 200-300 in defense im not kidding. As for taru PLD's, no comment.

**Radamvice** · 01-04-2004, 08:13 AM

spit it out joo taru hater!

**Abriael** · 01-06-2004, 09:34 AM

I've made a little analysis, just for fun, it's based on my current level.

With cure III you cure 180 HP using 48 mana (MND difference doesn't count since the healed amount caps at 180 for everyone), this means that every point of mana adds to the potential damage absorbing pool 3.75 HP.
Stated this we can elaborate that yes, Elvaan has a bigger BASIC damage absorbing pool of 846 that is bigger than the 785 of the hume, and the whopping 937 of the galka is the best of all. BUT if we throw in the healed hp, the balance of the POTENTIAL damage absorbing pool changes like that

Hume/Mithra: 785+192*3.5=785+672=1457 HP
Elvaan: 846+146*3.5=846+511=1357 HP
Galka: 937+76*3.5=937+266=1203 HP
Taru: 649+330*3.5=649+1155=1804 HP

This means that at level 45 the hume can absorb 100 damage more than the elvaan and a whopping 254 more than the galka.
This difference increases with level, the higher you go, the more difference you have.

As for the differences in the stats the difference is absolutely minimal, since what one has in DEF the others have in Evasion and it balances out (i won't count the difference in strengt because it's NOT important for a paladin, 2 or 3 HP of more damage a hit won't help you keep the aggro).
IF the rumor about Charisma helping provoke is true (and it seems so, since Koenig armor, that's made practically only for tanks adds +20 to Charisma) mithra and galka have the worst charisma of all, so their aggro control ability is worse, but mithra makes it up with a considerably better precision that makes them hit more often, keeping the base hate constant (another thing that elvaan lack).

Now: healed HP vs Base HP
What's better?
Healed HP are sure more flexible, since they can be used both on the paladin or the other members of his party, moreover they can be converted into damage (attacking spells) or evasion (Flash). More than everything else they mean AGGRO that's the real essence of the paladin, but they require the skill to use them while tanking.
Basic HP are more reliable, they're there even if the player is unskilled but they can't generate aggro and cannot be converted into damage or evasion, moreoevr they cannot be used to save another party member.
THis means that if the paladin has a fairly decent basic HP and the player behind the paladin is skilled enough Healed HP > Basic HP.

Let's end this analysis.

TARU: They have the highest potential damage absorbing pool, considerably higher, and they have the best aggro control of all, but they need a big deal of skill by the player to constantly heal while tanking, moreover many mobs have powerful special attacks that can potentially oneshoot them, this makes them a race only for highly skilled extreme players, they would work wonders in the average situation but will be unreliable in high risk situations.

HUME & MITHRA: the difference between the two is very very slight and advantages and disadvantages balance each other fairly well. Mithra evades and hits better, while humes absorb and provoke better. They have the second best damage absorbing pool mantaining a more than decent basic HP pool (never seen an hume or mithra paladin oneshotted or never heard of them).
So they are fairly reliable in the hands of a skilled player and have the second best aggro control ability.

ELVAAN: They have the third best damage absorbing pool and the third best aggro control ability, while they're only second best in basic HP. This makes them reliable in the hands of an average player, but they become unreliable in situations (and they unfortunately happen even while normally exping) in wich the damage absorbing pool is tested to the limit.
Yes, they CAN and probably WILL wear two astral rings, but this will simply make them like humes, with two ring slots used up, while humes can use the same slots to increase their abilities further.

GALKA: They have the best base HP, but both their aggro control and damage absorbing pools are the worst of all races. This makes them fairly reliable even in the hands of an unsklled player but only in low risk situations (quite rare). Skilled players cannot pull them to the limits like other races and this make them highly unreliable in emergencies.

After this analysys i'll conclude than Taru are in a grey area, they can be the great or crappy depending on a lot of factors. They exploit greatly the player's skill, but they have limits even themost skilled player cannot overcome.

Hume and Mithra still can exploit a great deal the player's skill but they're more reliable and all round tankers, provided than the player behind them is not a total noob.

Elvaan and expecially Galka are good for unskilled players in low risk situations, but skilled players won't be able to push
them to the limits like other races.

To compare them with cars.
Tarus are like drag racers with Nitro, they are fast like hell, but there are times they will explode under your ass, and you can't do anything to avoid it.

Hume and Mithra are like a Ferrari, fast and powerful, but if the one that drives it has just got his license ha can as well go smash his face against a lamppost.

Elvaan are your usual family car, they can carry you around even if you just got a license, but they will never give you the thrill of speed.

Galka are like.. umh... a bicycle?

This is about the maths. But they not always matter. We can give you the maths, but you have to put your fantasy into it.

**Arnda** · 01-06-2004, 10:08 AM

You forget one thing: Maximum allowable damage taken is, quite simply, equal to Max HP.

A Taru will die in one hit from an ability which would leave a Galka at 100-200 HP. I'm not saying this happens often, but this CAN happen, and even if it would leave the Taru with 100 or so, it would leave the Galka or Elvaan with 300-400. You covered this, but it's a LOT more important than you might have said.

Consider that. Healed HP is awesome and everything, but it's only available when you're missing HP, and it can only restore you to your maximum. While I agree with you in theory of the Healed HP factor as a reason not to choose Galka, I wouldn't consider the Tarutaru PLD to be better than an Elvaan, Mithra, or Hume PLD by any stretch. They're just too risky.

You compared the Taru to a drag-racer. I'd say it's the opposite. Compare it to distance running vs. a sprint. The Taru has stamina, sure; they'll go the distance if they're getting it at a steady pace. But they can't sprint for crap, and if a monster asks them to "sprint," they might just pass out from "exhaustion."

**Abriael** · 01-06-2004, 10:10 AM

If you read my post with more attention you will notice i did consider it, that's what i was talking about when i talked about nitro exploding under a taru's ass

P

**Arnda** · 01-06-2004, 10:12 AM

I think my metaphor works better. The Taru is going to last the longest when the drain on HP is constant and managable, but they can't suddenly convert large quantities of potential HP to actual HP, as they don't have enough capacity to do so.

Whereas for the Galka, it's all on the table right at the beginning. They blow their lead the fastest, but if fights go fast enough, they don't often need it. They'll last the longest when they're getting torn into faster than they can heal, but that's not much in the long run.

**imac2much** · 01-06-2004, 10:45 AM

Wow another post with an abundance of misinformation. No offense to you Abriael, since you're just trying to help and have fun, but this is what happens when you try to reduce the game into a state of simple and limited calculations while ignoring several other outside factors. Actual experience is just oh so much more valuable.

Minor quibble, healing cap of Cure III is not 180, I think it is 190 (mine does 188 or something, I forget).

The difference in stats is NOT minimal! If you didn't know, the damage calculation is ( (attacker's STR - defender's VIT) + (Weapon Damage) ) * (attacker's ATK / defender's DEF) with a few limitations. Weapon damage is a combination of skill levels and weapon base damage. Now if you look at this, you would realize that EVERY LITTLE BIT of VIT helps, and *not* just because 2 VIT = 1 DEF. And don't forget, every little difference in DEF is magnified when using food (they increase DEF by percentages, not fixed values)!

As a Galka (and if you ask any WHM that has teamed with me before), I get hit for a noticeably smaller amount of damage than any other race, except for Elvaan. (still less than them, but not noticeably so) Second, since I can allow my HP to fall lower than other races without causing the WHM to panic and spam Cure III/IV's, I can cast those on myself when I need to and generate more hate while the WHM rests.

Running out of MP? (laugh...) If you're a good Galka, you shouldn't run out of MP, even without Refresh or Ballad. I always rest during downtime while mages rest, and when nothing's going on I make apple and pineapple juices. In emergencies I use these juices but I almost never have to. Repeat: Even without Refresh or Ballad, I never run out of so much MP that I cannot control aggro. I always hold aggro with Flash (most efficient usage of MP for PLD due to blind, hate, etc), Provoke, Shield Bash, Sentinel, Defender, Berserk, WS's, whatever... Also, I wear a Life Belt instead of the standard RK belt to hit more, since it seems to generate more hate than a miss (regardless of the small damage), plus allows me to use more WS in renkei = more hate. The difference in accuracy is noticeable, but I may change back to RK (still testing, like I said every stat bonus helps).

As for the max HP again.. it happens much more often than you expect. Like I've said before, Exorays can hit for 700-800, QSC Spiders for 600, etc. Also, last night my alliance was fighting the 3 NM in Xarc for genkai 2. The stupid Borel Coeurl was spamming ancient magic like mad, so when we ran out of Shield and Weapon Bashes we just had to take it. I provoked it like mad to get the hate, healed my HP to full (1050 or so), and still survived with only 150 HP or so. Any other race other than Elvaan my level would probably have bit the dust or been very close. (To her credit, Whren survived one as well... but she's a few levels higher than me

)

Oh, and if you have a RDM or BRD in your PT (which I highly recommend lvl 40+ if not earlier), the whole MP consumption question goes out the window. I am NEVER under 50% MP with a RDM in my PT, and I can actually permanently use all my +DEF items instead of +MP macro switching.

So to make a long story short, I still believe Elvaan and Galka are the best races for PLD... but the player decides the character much more than the race. Hume and Mithra are fine, but their lower VIT and HP will be a slight hindrance whereas their higher MP pool won't help much (if anything, an Elvaan's MP pool is fine for a good PLD). Taru... sorry, I just ain't buyin it

They have the 'cutesy' and 'shock' factor, sure, but any tank that has a risk of getting one-shotted in XP parties are just a no-no.... if the tank dies against an IT, many times one or more others will follow...

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