My PLD usually die in PT

[Avenger02]

Honestly Right now when I use Defender at my current level at 25 or 26 there is little or no damage difference what so ever so I don't think there is gonna be that much of a difference and Killazer is blunt but does have a point... Cures save the day

[Teuffel]

BY pilsbane: I think a lot of people have a misconception about lower level paladins. They hear what great tanks paladins are and assume they are Gods-of-Tanking at all levels. At level 18 a warrior is just as good as a paladin tanking, well close anyway--being able to spam heals on yourself helps a lot. A 25 warrior/12 monk is actually better than a 25 paladin/12 warrior for taking hits, he has the same defense, plus counter and defender.

I have to disagree with this statement. Ive had several experinces with paladins thus far, and i have been pleasantly surprized.

1stly, i had the pleasure of grouping with a taru paldin named Backy, and a good friend of mine named Joie - who was also a taru. Both were lvl 18. Both were wearing lizard armor. Near identical setup. I had Joie pull, and Backy main tank. The difference was pretty amazing. I would have to spam CI on joie, but i didnt on Backy. We were fighting Tough snippers, with a the occasional VT snipper. I feel we did great considering we only had 3 tanks to do dmg. I realize this isnt a great party setup, but at the same time it was late and i coudlnt find any dmg dealers.

2nd. When we were lower lvl, my wife was lvl 12 and a paladin was lvl 10. Paladin despite wearing lvl 7 leather armor had 3 more defense than the wife wearing scale. Only diff there really was the hp's were higher on the wife. But paladin did an excellent job tanking for us.

As for pugils. My group tried taking them on in a group with lvls around 16. We wiped. My wife who was main tanking at the time was around 140ish hps and i was spamming the hellout of CI and was about to drop a CII on her when the pugil did its special for about 155dmg. She died, and then the rest of us died also as she was the highest lvl tank. We got it down to about 25% i think. Basically, you have to maintain the tanks health a good bit higher than what the pugil can hit you for. In this case i should have made it a priority to keep her HPs at 200ish+ but it was my first time healing a tank on a pugil so i learned the hard way. Also, i wouldnt have lasted the fight anyways if i had been spamming CII since at lvl 16 its so mana costly.

[Skyes]

So here I am, LV34 PLD thanks to your wonderful advices.

I would like to point out a few of my experiences:-

1) At lv 17 above, be the main tank. Create modest hate onto yourself by provoking the monster regularly (30 sec?). If your hp is quite low, request another provoker to pull, while the party healer and you cast CURE 2 on yourself. The monster will once again target you but this time your hp is replenished. The pt healer most likely WILL NOT get hate this way.

2) INVINCIBLE has more hate than BENEDICTION. So, if you pt is not going to make it, USE both 2 hr skills. THe whm will be saved.

3) I observed that PLD can increase TP faster than most jobs. Why? Because if the monster hits you, your TP increases too.

4) This statement is only for players who use 2H weapon as a WAR. Be the main tank at lower level so that you can train your shield and parry fast. Do not underestimate this 2 skills.

If I am wrong, please correct me.

[caelestis]

Originally posted by Skyes
3) I observed that PLD can increase TP faster than most jobs. Why? Because if the monster hits you, your TP increases too.

Actually getting TP at later lvl is a pain. Reason why I never assisted in renkei unless I had TP to spare and was the last in chain. As a DRG I gain tp *fast* compared to my PLD.


... and invince > bene = fun @_@

[Pilsbane]

Teuffel, what I said is true. I am both a Paladin/Warrior and a Warrior/Monk, so I am feeling the two jobs first-hand. I think what might be confusing in what I said before is when I compared a Warrior to a Paladin/Warrior. I should have specified Warrior/Monk.

I've died 2 to 3 times as often on my Paladin than I have my Warrior. Healers get the misconception that I am some kind of god of tanking and heal me less often than they would a warrior. The difference you probably noticed is self-healing from the Paladin. In the early levels this is about the only edge a Paladin has over a Warrior, albeit a nice one.

It also sounds like you've never seen a Warrior tank with defender before. A Warrior/Monk with the same gear as me takes less damage per hit with defender than I do as a Paladin/Warrior mid-20s. Most of the other Paladins I've talked to around my level feel the same kind of pains.

[Somajan]

If you have a warrior with you, that's not a bad thing since you two guys could also end up sharing the enmity.

About the Skillchain thing... use amethyst rings!!! I know paladins aren't for the hitting and stuff, but the only reason why I got those things was because I kept missing and it was starting to get annoying being able to miss all the time.

[Kagi]

I agree, TP gain for plds is crap. X.X Sure the monster hits you, but your TP goes up by... oh...3. Compared to the much larger TP gain damage dealers get in one hit. I use my WS occasionally solo, only to get hate back and only when needed. (btw, nice jumps Caelestis ^^ Meo complained your jumps pull faster than her poison :p )

From my observation up to around lvl 40, I died a lot around 12 (when I started partying) to 30. Because before 30 you don't have your second defence boost and Sentinel, and are just a war with cures. As Pilsbane says most whms think plds have godly defence even at low levels and don't cure so much, and since your mp bar is kind of stunted at low levels you can't do much to save yourself.

Now (at lvl 40ish) my parties normally only have me as the one tank so the whm has no choice but to cure me. I die a lot less too (protect II pushes my def to about 230, without sentinel), unless the monster brings out a crazy special attack that does like 500 out of my 700 hp. <.<;; Doom scorpions....

I think it's just going to get better at later levels. I think.

[caelestis]

Originally posted by Somajan

About the Skillchain thing... use amethyst rings!!! I know paladins aren't for the hitting and stuff, but the only reason why I got those things was because I kept missing and it was starting to get annoying being able to miss all the time.

... but it's not a PLDs job to even do dmg. They just take the hits essentially. Thats where SAM, DRK, MNK, DRG, BLM, etc etc etc come in, to do dmg. ^^


ps-- ohyea, I got CNest oowwnned in the pulling dept (jk). I was giggling when I did that too ^^ Poor Meo. (btw hope you guys stayed safe out in Beau this evening)

[Ranmazoku]

That's the funny thing about PLD though.. 99% of the time if you're a good PLD, you're the first to die. I know I took some kind of offense if another PT member fell before me, just showed I hadn't planned and done my best ><

If thats a good sign, then I'm on my way to become a good paladin

Died 3-4 times for the sake of my party, so yea

[Karinya]

Originally posted by iron_plate
If you die firstlly, you are a good paladin

(advice snipped)

Hope those information will help you.

All good advice, I just have one thing to add: enfeebles. In particular, Bio reduces attack, which is helpful against enemies with strong WS like pugils, and Blind reduces accuracy, which makes it harder for them to gain TP.

Bio should be cast by a BLM if you have one, otherwise a RDM or DRK (because it is a dark magic spell). Blind is enfeebling magic, so RDM are the best followed by BLM and DRK.

Paralyze and Slow are helpful too, with two WHM there is no excuse not to have them on (assuming they are high enough level of course).

[Claritin]

My opinion.

Yes.... There was something wrong in your group... it wasn't you.

If you die.. and you are the first one to die... you did your job well. If you had mana you should have healed yourself... but we get interrupted alot.

The only possible ways that you could have screwed up would be :
1.) Not using a shield
2.) Not healing yourself when you got low HP
3.) Provoking if you had low HPs and the pugil looked like it wanted to eat on another warrior in your group.

Remember the other warriors want to tank too... if you are taking too much dmg let it bite them once or twice then when WHM heals you provoke to regain the aggro so they can heal the WAR. You should keep the aggro MOST of the time... but you can share it with a WAR when needed to keep your butt alive.

The other person was correct too... hard enemies should be enfeebled ALOT. If you had 2 WHM then the Pugil should have had Dia, Paralyze, and Slow.... and if it didn't then it was 100% the fault of your 2 WHM that you died.... if you ahve 2 WHM and both just cast cure then you need to boot them both from the PT and find either a good pair of WHM or a good WHM and a RDM... because 2 WHM should have already done a /tell OtherWHM "which enfeebles are you going to use?" and worked out who did which ones.

I was tanking Pugils as lvl 17 PAL with just 1 WHM in my group and no backup healer (unless you count me as a backup healer).... it was difficult but I did it. You had 2 WHM... that is just sad they could not keep you alive... were they both Galka WHM/WAR or something and refused to rest to get mana?

Shield skill is hard to max.. I can't emphasize that enough... equip a shield when you are lvl 1-4 and use it all the time.... if you cap it you can use a great sword when you have another tank... but I doubt you cap shield.