Evasion question for high end NIN on HNM God tanking

[Les]

ninja can tank all gods. genbu, suzaku, seiryu takes one blink tank. Byakko, 2, 3 to be safe.

end of story.

[Bigbird]

Its not really about 'IF' NIN can tank them, of course they can, but PLD is the more preffered and effective overall for Sky GODS.
Some people just have a problem accepting reality. ~.~

Yes, Utsusemi is great, and awesome for many many things, but part of its effectiveness is actually Evading so our timers last long enough to always have our shadows up. With the accuracy, and ATK spd of the gods(cept Genbu, he is Cake) its pretty difficult for a single NIN tank to 1)Keep hate without RNGS, and BLMS holding Back, thus making the fight longer and 2) Keeping our shadows up.

Sure Les, maybe 2,3,4,5,6,7....etc NIN tanks could alternate tanking, but thats not that point, 1-2 PLD can do the same thing and even better. To alternate Tanking means 1 single NIN tank wound not have enough hate for your DDs to do their job. For emergencies PLD has Invincible (which is whats used when Seiryu does 100fist) and what do we have? Mijin Gakure, lol.

So the point is why use a NIN tank when PLD is 100 times better for Sky gods. After you spend hours Camping those Pop items why wouldnt you want the Best tank for the situation and risk 17 other peoples exp and time...
:spin:

[Madden]

What Mitsu said, all except Byakko not every hard to tank but problem is the hate. Using Earth Staff would only make it even harder. We have one galka WAR/NIN and 3 Paladins that can do the job better then me so I slack now days and get nice items

Most reason I still play Ninja is since its very nice job to solo with and that what I kind of enjoy most of these days and can run around with Kirin without any real problem.

[LionhartPLD]

that's what I was trying to say. You can do it but why would you want to. PLD does it so much better and more efficient on sky gods. One mistake and your NIN can get wiped. PLD is very flexible, allows for faster kills and less risk.

[Les]

bigbird..where did u get all those numbers from 2,3,4,5,6?
as i recalled a ninja can tank genbu, seiryu, suzaku (note 1 ninja).
i know this because i've done it.

byakko is different and will take more than 1 ninja, or in general, more than one tank, how u mix up the tanks is up to your discretion.

note. hate should not a be factor if rangers and blms just hold off for the first 2 minutes of the fight. to the ninja tanker= try not to get hit^^

[Mitsu]

Its not all about "being able" to..its all about whats more efficient. Im a lvl 75 nin/war and lead my own hnm ls. I have all the tank gear any ninja could want but the fact is that PLD will make fights much more efficient and faster. Personaly I like subbing rng and tossing manji and fuma for 100 damage+ per hit every 2 sec. Kirin on the other hand.....

[Russta]

Originally posted by Mitsu
Personaly I like subbing rng and tossing manji and fuma for 100 damage+ per hit every 2 sec..

And annoying me for Preludes :spin:

Read all this Mits? You gotta let me have a crack at tanking at least Genbu soon

[Demetrios]

In my opinion, as a 75 PLD and a 75 NIN, NIN is better than PLD on KB, Genbu, and Kirin. However I have never tried Seiryu or Byakko on my NIN since my LS always makes me go PLD on those... :X.

Mitsu, how all out did you go on enmity? With +17 enmity I was able to solo tank KB on NIN (only 4 deaths in the alliance the entire fight) along with RNG & BLM who of course will get hate from time to time. We started at 15:00 and we killed in an hour, so for the most part I had 25% movement speed. Kiting KB on Paladin is just too tedious in my opinion... you will get hit.. eventually KB's stun will proc twice in a row (then erase is on timer), and meteor will go off.

Given the best gear possible, a NIN can have up to +25 (28? @ Night) enmity.
Head HQ: 2
Body HQ: 4
Hands HQ: 2
Legs HQ: 3
Feet HQ: 2
Fenrir's Cape: +3? at night
Shuriken: +2
Eris Earring HQx2: 6
Mermaid Ring: 2
Max Merit points into enmity: 2

With this kind of +hate I think NIN could keep solid aggro on everything except for Fafnir, Nidhogg, and the new Uber-Dragons.

[Manatra]

Kiting is a different story when it comes to tanking.

Basically when kiting NIN > PLD (exception here is Faust).

On the harder NMs like gods, Fafnir, Aspido (easy but BLM get lots of hate) a tank PT setup roughly consiting of PLD, PLD, WHM/SMN, WHM/SMN, BRD, RDM (RDM and/or BRD SJ SMN too) is more efficient in terms of tanking than using NIN.

A) PLD tends to be able to take a few more hits and not go down in let's say 3 seconds when fighting Byakko.

B) PLD can keep hate far better than NIN hands down. This is especially noticable in Aspidochelone fights and other gods fights. PLD let's BLM and RNG have more lee way in terms of going all out. Yes, you can SA/TA NIN, but you can also do that to the PLD.

C) Notice the WHMs with Aerial Armor SJ? That basically means the PLD are a NIN tank, especially with the flash's thrown out from the tanks. The WHM have to be in the main alliance anyway, so why not have them throw Aerial Armor out every minute.

That's not to say NIN aren't useful for HNM fights. They are great for kiting things (King Behemoth, Kirin), and they can tank all the HNM (including Fafnir, I've seen a 9 person PT take it down with 3 NIN tanks alternating hate). It's just that when it comes down to it, for tanking, PLD is the safer route to go since hate is much more easily controlled by them when compared to NIN. I'm not saying that NIN aren't good, I'm just saying when put head to head vs. PLD tanks, NIN lack when you're straight tanking something that is "hard". As a note though, yes NIN can control hate just as well as a PLD with Ninjutsu... it's just not very practical when you're spending 100-200k gil per long drawn out fight (Aspido and Fafnir/Nidhogg come to mind).

(note I'm not going to include Tiamat, Jormungand, Vrtra, haven't really messed around with them yet)

[Demetrios]

I was messing around with Jormungand on my NIN, and once he's flying he does constant ice ball attacks which go through blink and are usually followed w/ a Blizzaga 3 :X.

As for Aspid I bet a NIN could do very well with enough enmity combined w/ Spirits Within... hopefully I'll get to try this soon @@; I haven't fought him in a while, but he seems pretty much like Genbu without the annoying Poisanaga or Waterga to strip your blinks.

FYI on Flash, it does not cause NMs or HNMs to miss you, it on ly works on regular mobs. It's just another hate too for PLDs.

[Mitsu]

Hmmm I had all enmity gear except that !@@##$ shuriken.. on rag it has never hit AH and personaly I dont see using 99 kindreds to get a CHANCE of it dropping. I plan on mixing enmity with my haste/-phys damage gear for some kiting, since evade+ is like pointless on hardest HNM. But as for now having alot of PLD in my LS lets me spare the gil for my relic upgrades. So far I have the gil just not the dynamis currency ; ;

[RukawaSCSU]

I just experienced couple god fight with NIN tank.

Byakko x 2 Galka NIN tank. 1st fight he died 1 times, but we got up since WAR/NINs back up at that time, and yes, no hassle at all. Pretty easy and straight fight. WIth SAM/THF, THF, DRK/THF constantly SA TA on NIN and WAR/NIN, hate is no problem. He didnt even equip most evasion gear, like bat earring, wind staff etc, but with Melody earring, Mambo and max parrying, Byakko missed him 7 times in a row once. 2nd fight no more death for NIN, only for War once because of one shot from Claw Cyclone , but yeah its so much easy to do than mix up WAR?NIN and PLD.

Seiryu x 1 Taru NIN with 900 HP. Not best evasion gear either, and he didnt die once. Duo tank with 1 WAR/NIN again, the WAR/NIN got killed bbut that taru NIN managed to hold it from half HP till 0. He got DRK/THF SAM/THF and provoke to get hate. no hate gear either, mostly evasion but not the best again. During 2h PLD provoke and 2h, then we seal bind it for 2-3 times. PLD did die because some ppl misunderstood the plan ( was supposed to bind 3-4 times and NIN build hate on that)

[RukawaSCSU]

I just experienced couple god fight with NIN tank.

Byakko x 2 Galka NIN tank. 1st fight he died 1 times, but we got up since WAR/NINs back up at that time, and yes, no hassle at all. Pretty easy and straight fight. WIth SAM/THF, THF, DRK/THF constantly SA TA on NIN and WAR/NIN, hate is no problem. He didnt even equip most evasion gear, like bat earring, wind staff etc, but with Melody earring, Mambo and max parrying, Byakko missed him 7 times in a row once. 2nd fight no more death for NIN, only for War once because of one shot from Claw Cyclone , but yeah its so much easy to do than mix up WAR?NIN and PLD.

Seiryu x 1 Taru NIN with 900 HP. Not best evasion gear either, and he didnt die once. Duo tank with 1 WAR/NIN again, the WAR/NIN got killed bbut that taru NIN managed to hold it from half HP till 0. He got DRK/THF SAM/THF and provoke to get hate. no hate gear either, mostly evasion but not the best again. During 2h PLD provoke and 2h, then we seal bind it for 2-3 times. PLD did die because some ppl misunderstood the plan ( was supposed to bind 3-4 times and NIN build hate on that)

[Bigbird]

Lol thats exactly why you want a PLD instead.

[RukawaSCSU]

No you are wrong. With NIN tank, less hate on the NIN< but also mean less hate on WHM. Imagine what if your PLD die? before he die mage pour all their MP to heal him, and when he dies, mages get the 2nd highest hate, not to mention is hard for back up tank to tank alone as a PLD< or get hate back from the mages.

Anyways, i enjoy to see easier way to kill God like Seriyu or Byakko than stress out for MP and HP on PLD and mages.