im tried of people saying SE doesn't like ninja tanks

[SkyWing_]

Thats just cuz pali 0wnZ j00 a!!, except for the part where if somethin goes wrong the whole PT blames it on "gimped tankin on the pali's part"

Don't get a Ninja for main tank unless u already have a Pld or a War in yur PT. My personal experiance work like, the ninja casts Utsuemi Itchi and provokes, which allows em not to be hit for like 3 or 4 turns, then the Pali vokes it off em. After it wears off the pali tanks until the recast time for UI regens.

[Aetheran]

Originally posted by SkyWing_
Thats just cuz pali 0wnZ j00 a!!, except for the part where if somethin goes wrong the whole PT blames it on "gimped tankin on the pali's part"

Don't get a Ninja for main tank unless u already have a Pld or a War in yur PT. My personal experiance work like, the ninja casts Utsuemi Itchi and provokes, which allows em not to be hit for like 3 or 4 turns, then the Pali vokes it off em. After it wears off the pali tanks until the recast time for UI regens.

Hey, I heard at level 37 Ninjas get Utsusemi: Ni. I also heard you can alternate both spells and not need someone else to recast

[sudo]

first off, if brady guide says that ninjas were never meant to tank, how many ppl would believe them?

Now if a japanese magazine says it's true, does that make it a fact?

I mean come on. When have you guys ever seen a magazine not have indescripincies and falsehoods in it? Even peer reviewed medical science journals have screw ups in them. *Points at the cold fusion idiocy of the 1980's.*

So who the fug cares if some magazine somewhere said something. That'd be like reading the Star or National Enquirer for the news on how britney now has a third breast the size of which is unknown to mankind.

2nd, I mean, so what is blink vs AOE is stripping of shadows? How exactly does that "cripple" ninja tanking? A mob does an AOE's, wow, like they didn't before. But you loose 3 shadows = big deal. you take 3 hits. Blink back up again. Life goes on. Someone cast a cure III and a regen and things are back on tack. The cost to the party based on nerf is like what? 96 MP ish? Comparted to a pld tank, that is like a drop in the bucket.

Wow, relic armor has no enemenity. Oh no! end of the world!
Well uh, I do believe that the ability to hit almost 2x for each hit a pld can dish out with max damage gear and like what? .55 delay modifier? while throwing down damage spells and the such is probably just fine for holding hate regardless of enemenity gear.

The enemenity on pld helps, but so what? A flare MB or sidewinder barrage will probably take the hate anyway. A nin looses the agro just the same so whats the difference? oh ya, the amount of damage delt to the mob by the nin over the pld.

Lots of things were and were not intended. I bet everything that makes another job even remotely comes close to yours(those are claiming ninjas are now destroyed)-
in performance would give you horrible feelings of inadquacy. Get off it, people aren't that special in real life. In one player games you can be whatever you like but in massive multiplayer, everyone is just another player. Get over it!

[sudo]

And to hell with intented. If they intended bst to be solo only, then why do we rock in pt's?

Would a pt of bst's be considered an exploit? If so, then great! I love taking advantage of a situation much like I save a lot of money on tax credits and shelters and wise investments.

If it is possible to exploit loopholes in our almighty tax system and save thousands of dollars, then finding every possible exploit and abusing it to the best of our abilities should be every citizen's duty!

If you think that calling ninjas exploitive and should not exist puts you on the moral high ground, then by all means, I yield the high ground to you. I'll be walking away with my thousands of U.S. dollars (not gil) worth of tax credits that I found and "exploited" i.e. "used".
I'll drink a martini to you from my hot tub filled with scantidly clad beautiful women and hope you are having fun on your "moral high ground"

[Lightfoot]

i hate to say it... but sudo has a point... but it is exactly pricks like sudo who ruin everything for everyone else. your Tax credit comparison has cost the goverment thousands of dollars it gave to you because you exploited the laws. everything you do affects somthing else remember that. It may not affect you now but it will in the long run a garentee it.


Also i think this is a good thing for ninjas and the game as a whole. Now there will be a reason to take warrior to lvl 75, becasue it's another tank. Ninja's will no longer be the uber flavor of the month and will weed out the true ninja from those who just want to be powerful and cool.

and just becasue you CAN do somthing doesnt always mean you should


but what do i know, im just a big dumb DRK that hurts things.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by sudo
2nd, I mean, so what is blink vs AOE is stripping of shadows? How exactly does that "cripple" ninja tanking? A mob does an AOE's, wow, like they didn't before. But you loose 3 shadows = big deal. you take 3 hits. Blink back up again. Life goes on. Someone cast a cure III and a regen and things are back on tack. The cost to the party based on nerf is like what? 96 MP ish? Comparted to a pld tank, that is like a drop in the bucket.

No, it's not a drop in the bucket. When the mob decides to do Jet Stream, or Big Scissors, or fires off a couple double attacks while you are waiting for your shadows to come up, then it becomes a huge deal.

The whole "NIN will just tank with no shadows for a while" excuse is a joke. If NIN is so good at tanking without shadows, see how far your party can go without using Shihei, or see how good you do if the NIN gets silenced and doesn't get a Silena/echo drop.

If the NIN can't keep his shadows up, what possible reason is there for a party to invite a NIN/WAR instead of a WAR/x? WAR/x will do more damage, take less damage per hit, and generate more hate. If neither one of them can keep shadows up, NIN/WAR becomes a third-tier tank at best.

[Korutonu]

Like i said before, with the Arhat's gear you do not take as much physical damage as you normally would with any other armor a NIN can use. It may be a small bit of damage reduced but combine Arhat gear, Jelly ring and i think it's called "Defender Ring" (Lv 70 ring, -10% to physical attacks on you). That is late in the game but that's also the time when alot of Evasion + only makes a small difference.

Stack all that with defender and you wont be taking that horrid 200 or so dmg per hit. So yes NIN can still tank, even taking a few extra hits won't cause as big as a problem some ppl make it seem.

Plus the % reduced would make a bigger damage reduction if you naturally were hit for more. So all that would show even more than on a PLD who already gets hit for less than 100 on exp mobs.

[vudoodoodoo]

Re: Re: im tried of people saying SE doesn't like ninja tanks

Originally posted by Crowzukin
So then why doesn't the Ninja artifact or relic armor have any +enmity on it? Even the Thief relic armor has +enmity on it while the Ninja's does not. Why do you think this is? OH! OH! PWNED

The enmitygets transfered to whoever when THF does Trick Attack.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Korutonu
Like i said before, with the Arhat's gear you do not take as much physical damage as you normally would with any other armor a NIN can use. It may be a small bit of damage reduced but combine Arhat gear, Jelly ring and i think it's called "Defender Ring" (Lv 70 ring, -10% to physical attacks on you). That is late in the game but that's also the time when alot of Evasion + only makes a small difference.

Stack all that with defender and you wont be taking that horrid 200 or so dmg per hit. So yes NIN can still tank, even taking a few extra hits won't cause as big as a problem some ppl make it seem.

Stack all that with Defender, and your hate generation will be so poor that your ability to take hits won't even matter; the mob will be running after the DDs.

[Gryff]

spider-spam, what is your problem with nin/war? you never seem to talk about anything else about how gimped it is and how we should all sub rng, and let pld be the only tank.


Post-patch all ninjas will experiment and if we can still tank efficiently we will, stop trying to turn the ninja forum into the drg forum just because you cant afford to play ninja.

[obsidian]

Well let's see. Ninja have and "A" in evasion. An "A" in parrying. They get two seperate blink spells, and the only one that has 4 shadows. They have three debuffs, all of which cause a mob to hit the tank less, and the high level versions have extremely short casting times. No, S-E obviously never intended a ninja to tank.

[frogurtx]

Let's not forget the new BC70 Atropus Orb Battle in Chamber of Oracles. "The Scarlet King" its called, where you fight 1 giant Manticore, who spams Bloodweapon, and hits for about 200damage a pop.

This fight is near impossible if not completely impossible without a blink tank, because the mob's bloodweapon regen's it's HP faster than you can take it out. SE had to have planning for Nin's to tank this BC.

SE can't hate blink tanks if they made a BC geared to them specifically.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally posted by Gryff
spider-spam, what is your problem with nin/war? you never seem to talk about anything else about how gimped it is and how we should all sub rng, and let pld be the only tank.

Hi! Perhaps you should learn to read.

Please cite one post where I state that NIN/WAR is gimped in the present. Thank you, have a nice day.

I have always maintained that from 37 up, NIN/WAR is better than NIN/RNG (under current game rules). Again, cite one post where I say otherwise.

The problem with discussing the future patch is that there are several NIN/WARs who are simply delusional, and think that a major nerf to NIN can be solved just by playing like a WAR after every AOE. Problem: NINs are not WARs. No one will want a NIN tank that can't keep his shadows up; PLD would be an incomparably better tank, and WAR is substantially better too.

For the record, I am starting to hope that it's only AOE physical attacks (like Sprout Spin) that wipe your shadows. I can kind of think of ways to rationalize this explanation, it would have minimal impact, and everyone would be happy. However, when I start to think that, I remember that I also thought, "Squenix will just fix the relic knuckles... they aren't stupid enough to nerf ALL WSes, it's not even needed." Squenix has a history of using a rocket launcher to kill a mosquito, and I think it will apply here.

[Biterman]

Originally posted by sudo
2nd, I mean, so what is blink vs AOE is stripping of shadows? How exactly does that "cripple" ninja tanking? A mob does an AOE's, wow, like they didn't before. But you loose 3 shadows = big deal. you take 3 hits. Blink back up again. Life goes on. Someone cast a cure III and a regen and things are back on tack. The cost to the party based on nerf is like what? 96 MP ish? Comparted to a pld tank, that is like a drop in the bucket.

LMAO! *dies laughing*
The NIN takes 3 hits and gets back to full with a cure III and regen? A NIN takes at least 150 dmg for a regular hit, cure III soft cap is 180 healed HP. So I suppose that regens somehow heals ~300 hp right?
There are also other factors of course, if the mob decides to do a dmg special, or if the NIN evades some/all of the attacks but your 96 mp drop in the bucket comment is quite stupid.

The enemenity on pld helps, but so what? A flare MB or sidewinder barrage will probably take the hate anyway. A nin looses the agro just the same so whats the difference? oh ya, the amount of damage delt to the mob by the nin over the pld.

Yet, another quite stupid remark. Most of the time I hold hate from Sidewinder then SATA Dancing Edge on the RNG. Yes, the RNG. Those few times the mob turns to the RNG I get it back with a Flash or provoke. First time this happened, at lvl 60, my SP(including me) was quite amazed. The first thought that came to my mind was "So this is full AF, huh?"
You must know that us PLD have to actually hold back on hate so the DD WS turns the mob away from us so we get the SATA WS on us. Every good PLD does this.

I highly recommend you go to the BLM forum and check a thread named "BLM + NIN". You will see how most BLM prefer to PT with a PLD. Go ahead and read it, and you will see how the advice high BLM give is to 'hold back on your nukes'. So while the NIN can do twice or damage than a PLD, the BLM is doing less.

After all that, I do want to make it clear I dont want be to the only viable job that can tank. Perhaps NIN will get Utsu: San, or other evasion abilities or what have you. I dont mind the competition from NIN at all. What I do mind is how some NIN can have this huge ego and babble out ignorant remarks like "we are the best tank....this AOE changes nothing!" or with such blatant lies posted by Sudo.

[Naota1369]

Life goes on. Someone cast a cure III and a regen and things are back on tack.

lol sudo. no.

life doesnt go on, if lets say a Hornfly in crawlers nest starts to go crazy with Cursed Sphere and whm casts cure III to get things going again......the nin, having terrible D will have taken large amounts of damage without his blinks up. The CureIII will most likely have taken hate off of the nin and the fly would be then raping all of the other party members i.e whm....

this isnt safe tanking anymore. when it was one blink it was fine. nin doesnt need heal, party members get a regen maybe a cureII, but otherwise your good. with ALL blinks stripped mobs with double attack would rape a nin with his blink down, and again not to mention the hate issues of a whm having to spam cures on his ass.....