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  • #16
    Ok, here's my thing on Paladin vs Ninja.

    Its just like how Damage Dealer's all basically have the same goal in mind, but they all have different ways of doing it that actually really matter ( I wish more english speaking players would realize this more for more dynamic party mechanics) Dark Knights are bare bones with some magic but thats they're charm. Samurai are low end regularly, but they speed up the skillchain process with they're highly flexible WS's as well as the AF that increases Meditation potency (I hate it when people say that other jobs that can sub for meditate make Samurai totally useless, no one else can use those G.Katana WS's)and bring MB's out faster, Dragoons can shed hate instantly, Monks are the masters of spam damage, Ranger's are the puller/physical nuker class, Warrior's are the most flexible melee job in the game, Thieves well..you all must know what they do.

    The thing is, is they all basically have one ultimate purpose, hit the enemy. But they all have very different ways of doing it that affect the party (and work well with some others more than some) dynamics.

    Its the same thing with Warrior's, Ninja's, and Paladin's. Warrior's and Ninja's are Tank/Damage Dealer's, meaning they can be put into either position, although Warrior's are more Damage Dealer than Tank by a bit, and Ninja's are a bit more tanks than Damage Dealer's since you can do almost the same things in either catagory, and unless your partied with a Paladin out of desperation for whatever reason you're usually the best candidate to tank. Paladin's are dedicated Tanks, they just cannot be put into a damage dealer role at all (Thats too bad, I loved how defensively offensive FFTA Paladin's were, especially with Duel Wield) They all have one ultimate goal, to negate the enemy's attack. But they all have very different ways of doing it. Warrior's are really tanks only of necessity, they really do seem to be the lesser threat of the Tanks but the fact they can slip from Damage Dealer into tank so fluidly is very useful. Ninja's are tanks that rely a lot more on party formation and are more complex to deploy, but that extra effort gets great results, and Paladin's are just full blown shields.

    Weither or not Ninja's were originally meant to tank is irrelevant, the fact is is that it gives parties variety to choose from. I've noticed lately lots of player's have adopted this philosophy that you need 3 melee's (2 DD's and one Tank), and 3 backline, and thats it. It doesn't matter what the three melee's are as long as they're melee. But thats just sub par to me, the variety in classes means you can think of party dynamixs to make a party flow more, as some jobs just work better with others than some.

    Warrior's are Damage Dealer's that can tank, Ninja's are variety that can tank and damage, Paladin's are pure defense. Its all about choices.

    So to me, as far as tanks go its irrelevant really to try to make one better over the other. Its like saying Ninja's suck because they take physical damage harder than Paladin's but thats irrelevant because thats not what they're specialty is. Or its like saying Paladin's suck because they can't damage deal very well, thats not they're thing either.

    I won't name names but even though all jobs have specific uses, some of the damage dealer classes are in a bit of a disadvantage compared to others. But for the tanks I think its a farely equal worth.

    Offense <> Offense/Defense >< Defense

    Warrior Ninja Paladin

    It covers the three levels of a tank class pretty broadly.


    ^. You have now seen everything..

    Name: Kiyotaru.
    Ethinticity: Windurstian.
    Home: Norg
    Main job: Ninja/Warrior (Current level's 50-60)
    Server:Ragnarok.

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    • #17
      just face it sir, paladin is nothin more than a broke ass ninja.




      Dumass
      Job Levels: [ *61 PLD / *72 RDM / 40 WHM / 37 WAR / 37 BLM / *70 RNG/+25 MNK / *60NIN / 15 THF / +40 BST / 12 SAM / 10 DRG / 12 DRK / 04 SMN / +20 BRD]

      AF Complete*
      Future AF+

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Mitsu
        WHen 4hrs of pt go by your pt members are like woohoo and your like gahdamnit man my eyes hurt, pls lets continue later
        I totally feel you on this one Mitsu It seems my limit now is about 10k xp. After that I gotta take a break. And like you said my pt is usually a little dissapointed, but as they are my set they understand which is nice. Ninja players go through a lot of pain at high level.

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        • #19
          Mob misses mitsurugi
          mitsurugi parries attack
          mob gets DA..and 2 shadows get ate
          mob misses mitsurugi
          mob readies special attack, BUT b4 that special attack lands you see that the mob has attacked and ate one of your shadows without you seeing the animation of the attack. so in essence your BLINKLESS
          etc etc
          Must be nice to have a fail-safe method of counting shadows and attacks and such. I bet someone could write a bot to be the ultimate tank.

          Besides that comment... saying that NIN can only go AFK for 10 seconds and PLD for 30 seconds (supposedly) is in no way a valid argument for NIN > PLD.

          I do like the comparison of Tech Stocks vs. Mutual Funds. Just hope that you are always in the groups that encounter a bull market. Seeing a NIN foul up his Utsu Ni or Ichi is not a pretty sight.

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          • #20
            my point is not to prove NIN>PLD NOR PLD>NIN i was just giving insight into what a typical high lvl nin battle is like. As far as a BOT blink tanking.....sure its possible but you would have to program AI that is in synch with the current mob AI and make decisions whether to self-cancel, let last shadow get ate, or take 2-3 hits if NI is just 3-5 sec away from recast. Blink tankings is not fail-safe nor will it ever be until Sann Utsu is released :drool: . Too many thinks require on-the-fly judgements and require a knowledge of your limitations. PLD and Nin both do thier jobs well, but many people dont take the time to see HOW they do it.


            kirk. I have a limit of ~20k thats roughly 4.5 hrs of straight nail biting exp grinding. After that my head turns to goo and i dont wanna do anything resembling tanking for a day
            Smithing 68
            Weaving 60
            Leather 30
            Woodworking 73
            Alchemy 50
            Amazing what one will do to level Blacksmith in this game -.-

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            • #21
              Hmmm i think what this argument has boiled down to is this.

              Its not that NIN > PLD

              but

              NIN Job difficulty > PLD job diffuculty

              thus

              Good NIN player > Good PLD player

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              • #22
                Originally posted by l)@RK-l)EVIL
                vs some mobs + thf in the pt i say ninga is alot better than pld

                without thf pld is better than ninga

                when fighting some mobs who attack fast pld is better

                pld have more useful abilitys like cover for erxapmle

                but you fighting slow mobs and there is thf in the pt pld can never be better than nin
                THF (2) + Ninja = shit
                http://www.livejournal.com/users/zandria_/
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                Dra Bmyhad Ec Toehk - FF7
                ----
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                • #23
                  Ninja do not require a THF to keep hate.. It does make it very easy to hold with a THF but it is not required.
                  www.ex-online.com
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                  NIN75 THF75 RNG75 WAR75 BST66 DRG64
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kirk
                    Hmmm i think what this argument has boiled down to is this.

                    Its not that NIN > PLD

                    but

                    NIN Job difficulty > PLD job diffuculty

                    thus

                    Good NIN player > Good PLD player
                    So by that, does that mean that Good DRG player > Good MNK player when fighting bone monstesr?
                    JohNNY

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ZQM


                      So by that, does that mean that Good DRG player > Good MNK player when fighting bone monstesr?
                      A good DRG player is who who uses Jumps on time
                      A good MNK later is one who does Boost all the time

                      A good PLD player is one who stands still and keeps hate
                      A good NIN player is one who doesn't get hit and holds hate
                      www.ex-online.com
                      LiveJournal
                      NIN75 THF75 RNG75 WAR75 BST66 DRG64
                      レベル

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Stanislav


                        A good DRG player is who who uses Jumps on time
                        A good MNK later is one who does Boost all the time

                        A good PLD player is one who stands still and keeps hate
                        A good NIN player is one who doesn't get hit and holds hate
                        :x

                        The point of my post completely flew of your head.

                        He said that, because the Ninja job is difficult, a good NIN > a good PLD. Well, DRG's have a very difficult time against bones. A good MNK will always outdamage a good DRG against bones. So a good MNK > a good DRG against bones, even though the DRG job has a more difficult time.
                        JohNNY

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                        • #27
                          Difficulty in hitting and doing damage aka DRG vs Bones, however very annoying is still automatic. Ninja is a job that requires alot of player input. Attacking and missing is not initiated by the player therefore automatic. So in essence the question of skill doesnt come into the equation when you hit for less or not hit at all. IMO good nin that decide to raise a PLD will do extremely well where as a good PLD would have more time to adjust to the playstyle of ninja


                          Being "Good"at your job you also know your limitations.DRGand RNG pretty much suck against bones. That doesnt stop them from being good , its the limitations that they have. Its not skill related its system related. With ninja you dont have the excuse of not being able to tank somthin bc its a MNK type or a RDM type. If anything you take that opportunity to show where skilled ninjas can tank anything with planning. S-E didnt give ninja a "focus" or a definate purpose because i think they wanted to be a "blank" job where people did what they wanted to with it. Unfortunately people exploit the blink tanking and not other aspects of the job because of difficulty. Blinking is the EASIEST thing a ninja can do well. Others things like throwing take more time and ingenuity, but in that same aspect, ingenuity does not secure a pt role. From that i feel sorry for those who dont give ninja a chance and get too sucked up into PLD>NIN or NIN>PLD politics.
                          Smithing 68
                          Weaving 60
                          Leather 30
                          Woodworking 73
                          Alchemy 50
                          Amazing what one will do to level Blacksmith in this game -.-

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mitsu
                            nono topics like this are good. It brings out the flamers and the people who actually think. Both are welcome and both are needed in the society. Just saying PLD>NIN or NIN>PLD is not good enough, discussion and debate is what it takes. Plus its fun to see outside view points...keep em commin:spin:

                            Edit: Navia i left the renkei and Magic burst out purposely bc there is no way possible to type and correctly represent the horror of it. I prefer to stay out of Renkei, but now that i can do darkness renkei with 400-900 damage im up for the pain. Still debuffing and then doing 2 MB, while taunting and blinking makes ya tired. WHen 4hrs of pt go by your pt members are like woohoo and your like gahdamnit man my eyes hurt, pls lets continue later
                            I got a pt invite to cape terrigan while farming last night and to my surprise there was a PLD tanking so I ummm pulled and renkei'd with the RNG that was throwing around sidewinders.

                            It was the 1st party in like 30 levels where I didn't tank (okay I stole aggro a couple times just to see how hard terror pugil are to blinktank),
                            Not tanking I had time to like actually chat in LS and yeah I wasn't as worn out after a couple hours because I wasn't staring at my chatbox counting shadows. I swear my chatbox is all I see when im shadow counting, its like when I was whm and saw only the hp bars haha.

                            3 Mithra are better than 1...
                            Sapphire - Valefor 30RDM/15THF
                            Navia - Valefor 70SAM/63NIN/42SMN/42RNG/60DRK
                            Navii - Valefor 70SAM/64NIN/42SMN/50RNG/60WHM


                            Navia - Asura (ret.) 75NIN/75RNG/55WHM/37WAR/37SMN/28THF
                            Goldsmithing (99.0 + 3) / Clothcraft (60+1) /Smithing (60.0)/BoneCraft (60) / Alchemy (60) / Cooking (30)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by John Doe III


                              THF (2) + Ninja = shit
                              Who ever has 2 thf in a pt?
                              I haven't even had 1 thf in my pt's since like 10 levels ago D; thf are an endangered species - good thing theres all those drk/thf we can pick from for sa+ta in a few levels i guess :confused:

                              3 Mithra are better than 1...
                              Sapphire - Valefor 30RDM/15THF
                              Navia - Valefor 70SAM/63NIN/42SMN/42RNG/60DRK
                              Navii - Valefor 70SAM/64NIN/42SMN/50RNG/60WHM


                              Navia - Asura (ret.) 75NIN/75RNG/55WHM/37WAR/37SMN/28THF
                              Goldsmithing (99.0 + 3) / Clothcraft (60+1) /Smithing (60.0)/BoneCraft (60) / Alchemy (60) / Cooking (30)

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                              • #30
                                I have been in MANY 2 THF pt. Of course this was when Yokodama was still in game. 2 THF+NIN was godly. Only problem is the fact you NEVER get any rest as the ninja since hate is constant;y being put on you. BLM could do MB with 2 freeze on Ice day and I wouldnt lose hate lol. OH HOW I MISS YOKO bad S-E, BAD BAD BAD....take a integral part of gameplay that has been around for 1.5 years and "fix" it. Forgot to mention that this pt set allowed for different subs for ninja, such as sam for instance. Aww the fun times of a dual yoko
                                Smithing 68
                                Weaving 60
                                Leather 30
                                Woodworking 73
                                Alchemy 50
                                Amazing what one will do to level Blacksmith in this game -.-

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