If you could alter something about the Ninja..

[Daxem]

Personally i think we need throwing WS if they do come out with em they should be ninja specific(like RNG GUN/BOW skills). It would be neato to have WS like these
30 Trick Throw-Throw twice in quick sucsession
50 Toxin-Bio effect
70 Quick Hand-Throw three times in quick sucsession
120 Nerve Toxin-Bio effect w/paralyze+bind
(heh last one would be a little overkill but i can dream ^^)

Also what the crap is up with the passive sneak skill it sucks they need to up it a bit i mean you can get maybe MAYBE 2-3 steps closer to an enemy before being detected.

Also i want cape to be shown that would be awsome but the capes dont always look good with all the armor so make their appearance optional like in equipment have a little cheack bos

Also weres my poisen shrikens COME ON there assasin weopons they need poisen or at least give me some of the above weopon skills ^^ well ive said mine

[TMPikachu]

The role of a ninja tank is perfectly acceptable

a ninja confounds the enemy, for he tanks with illusions, they swipe at shadows while you strike back with shuriken and lethal dual weapons.

It's perfectly fine to have a ninja tank.

The game has 3 tanks

paladin, warrior, and ninja

Pal n' ninja need /war to tank anyways

the game has for attackers...
dragoon/samurai/dark knight/warriors with axes/black mages/rangers

Methinks ninja should get passive accuracy boosts
or...
howabout passive 'critical %' boosts? Seems ninja-esque.

I think the 'true' purpose of the ninja was to be a melee rdm of sorts. enfeeble the foe, then strike.
They just make increadibly good tanks too.

[Thylteev]

It's tough, because, sure, a ninja could be an acceptable "tank" due to his nimbleness, but that's the only option right now and, to me, that's just tunnel vision. They really need to think of a way to, perhaps, tone down the blink tanking and and strengthen the ninja's other attributes, such as dealing damage with shurikens and chakrams and making ninjitsu more effective.

[Kirk]

I have to agree with TMPikachu. Ninja role as tank is acceptable. The whole essence of the ninja tank is based on trickery and diversion. Perhaps if there was more animation given to Utsusemi, like you see yourself get hit but then the image turnes to smoke and your real self is still standing there attacking it would portray this. But those sorts of things are not doable due to lag/processor constraints I suppose.

Also to clarify, by acceptable I mean acceptable in concept not effectiveness. Ninja makes an exceptional tank in terms of effectiveness, better than paladin IMO.

[icel0rd]

New active abilities to inflict status effects like blind attacks, paralyze, poisons, etc. I don't like the huge powder stock requirement to be versatile. Waiting for TP to build to use any of these abilities makes it hard for their use to be effective in a PT also. I think active abilities should be made available to inflict status effects that are weapon based, yet NOT TP or powder dependant, and are on timers instead.

A ninja without the ability to be stealthy just doesn't seem ninja-like. They should be able to sneak past enemies much easier with some more abilties. I agree that it is lame to have a mage be able to deordorize, sneak, and invis past anything, yet a ninja can't (not unless he uses items to sneak and deodorize).

The whole blink-tank only role seems rather unintentional, and kind of ridiculous. Why would the developers really intend for someone to spend around 5k per stack of powders to keep casting Utsusemi over and over. It just doesn't seem to be logical to make that 1 ability the lifeblood of the whole job. Now that yokodama has changed, it is even more of a questionable role where the ninja would need to hold aggro while using Utsusemi. I think ninjas should not be the focus of attacking attention, but evasive and dextrous assassin types, who poison, paralyze, deceive, and defeat the enemy with more abilities than just blinking over and over so people can kill the enemy.

Throwing weapon skills would be great also. Why ninjas don't get weapon skills for items that they are masterful with is strange.

[TMPikachu]

Originally posted by icel0rd
New active abilities to inflict status effects like blind attacks, paralyze, poisons, etc. I don't like the huge powder stock requirement to be versatile. Waiting for TP to build to use any of these abilities makes it hard for their use to be effective in a PT also. I think active abilities should be made available to inflict status effects that are weapon based, yet NOT TP or powder dependant, and are on timers instead.

A ninja without the ability to be stealthy just doesn't seem ninja-like. They should be able to sneak past enemies much easier with some more abilties. I agree that it is lame to have a mage be able to deordorize, sneak, and invis past anything, yet a ninja can't (not unless he uses items to sneak and deodorize).

The whole blink-tank only role seems rather unintentional, and kind of ridiculous. Why would the developers really intend for someone to spend around 5k per stack of powders to keep casting Utsusemi over and over. It just doesn't seem to be logical to make that 1 ability the lifeblood of the whole job. Now that yokodama has changed, it is even more of a questionable role where the ninja would need to hold aggro while using Utsusemi. I think ninjas should not be the focus of attacking attention, but evasive and dextrous assassin types, who poison, paralyze, deceive, and defeat the enemy with more abilities than just blinking over and over so people can kill the enemy.

Throwing weapon skills would be great also. Why ninjas don't get weapon skills for items that they are masterful with is strange.

when you're actively seeking fights with monsters though, stealth seems to be less of an issue.
but yeah, something like a 3 minute/5 min cooldown 'total sensory undetectability' would be cool.

if one causes status effects with active abilities, then it makes their unused powders even more useless (and their weapons which cause status effects too)

[Kirk]

All I can say is, if using Utsusemi and blink tanking was not the true purpose of ninja, then what is?

[Mitsu]

lol i kike this thread. Anywho, I think the presence of Throwing WS would be like candy to all nin who even bother to cap thier skills. I mean Square-eniix saw fit to have nin af add 10 Acc, +4 Agi, and +20 Range Attack !!. Combine those stats with an A+ rank in throwing skill AAAANNNND damn powerfull throwing stars, you have a potentialy great damage dealer/tank. Why make a class have A+ skill lvl in a weapon and not have a WS><. Another worthwhile addition could be more abilities (critical attack% up) comes to mind. With nin having only ONE active ability it cant be too hard. The one thing that SE did with nin that I feel was necassary was leaving out the "sann" (third lvl) ninjutsu. All high lvl ninja knows what a 3rd lvl blink will do^^

[Kirk]

Originally posted by Mitsu
lol i kike this thread. Anywho, I think the presence of Throwing WS would be like candy to all nin who even bother to cap thier skills. I mean Square-eniix saw fit to have nin af add 10 Acc, +4 Agi, and +20 Range Attack !!. Combine those stats with an A+ rank in throwing skill AAAANNNND damn powerfull throwing stars, you have a potentialy great damage dealer/tank. Why make a class have A+ skill lvl in a weapon and not have a WS><. Another worthwhile addition could be more abilities (critical attack% up) comes to mind. With nin having only ONE active ability it cant be too hard. The one thing that SE did with nin that I feel was necassary was leaving out the "sann" (third lvl) ninjutsu. All high lvl ninja knows what a 3rd lvl blink will do^^

Indeed, indeed a Sann Utsusemi will never come about, or shouldn't. But perhaps a Sann for the elemental ninjutsu wouldn't be bad, unless it starts competing with blm's for damage. I am unfortunately one of those ninja who did not level up throwing while i was young and now regret it, im stuck at 13 skill level! If anyone has advice on how to level up throwing relatively quickly please let me know. *dreams of one day adding a stack of shiruken to his normal ninja grocery list*

[Mitsu]

hmmmm lvl 13 skill huh? ><..I was like that long ago when i was lvl 20. This is what you can do to lvl your throw quickly. Buy the +5 RANGE ACC +5RNG ATK Chakram (goes for about 10k on rag) and buy one archer knife +10 range ACC. With your AF you should have +25 Range Acc minimum. Make a SIMPLE macro skill (/bow <t> ) is what i used. Then at your skill lvl you should go to latheine, tarongi or Kon...find a suitable target and spam that macro lol. When you feel that area is not skilling you anymore move to another. Keep repeating till you get to..... 150 skill at that lvl you can start building skill in your pt without sacrificing much. Just equip katana and archer knife. Depending on your pt you have the opportunity to do nothing but throw^^, but please make sure you have no other duties than to tank lol.

[tonka]

I think some of you are too obsessed with this fantasy version of what ninjas did in feudal Japan. You paint ninjas like they were a cult of highly trained martial artists who used their practiced skills to assasinate enemies. Total BS introduced by bad B martial art flicks and anime.

The job of the ninja was during siege when the main force was attacking (or even when not), to scale enemy walls and start messing with the civilians or sleeping soldiers. They didn't even dress in black, they wore the uniform of the enemy to cause more confusion.

Other than that, they operated as scouts.

There is not one, not ONE documented case of a ninja successfully assassinating a person of any military importance. Almost all assassinations were inside jobs done via bribery or other means. No ninjas swooping in killing 500 defenders to send a shuriken at the shogun.

The main advantage of ninja was psychological warfare, not martial arts.

[Kiyosuki]

But this isn't about the realistic version of the Ninja's, there weren't Red Mages, Knights who cast White Magic, and people who summoned Gods to do they're bidding in the middle ages were there? :sweat:

The real life Ninja was kind of like an ancient version of a Swat team member, or a Covert (Today's covert ops in fact share a lot in common with the Ninja on image alone if you think about it) Its true that they weren't quite as mystical as many legends and movies make them out to be. I was asking my father some year's back when I was visiting him (He's Japanese himself) about some of the crazy mythology behind the Samurai and the Ninja, since the image of it, Martial Arts masters, and all things from ancient Asia hold such high appeal now. One of the interesting things about Japanese history and culture is how much rumor and speculation were used to increase the image of both the Samurai and the Ninja, and many other types in the old ages. Ninja's being near mythical shadow warriors who had exotic and bizzare, as well as powerful abilities and tools at they're disposal, and Samurai being of near god like status, they're Blades said to be able to cut whole mountains and all that kind of stuff. Ofcourse, unfortunatly none of this is true (Though I like to keep an open mind a bit...but well, realistically.). But the thing thats so powerful about that kind of mythology is it made regular men and women far more than they actually were. The right mythos behind something real, especially back then, was a powerful tool for not just Samurai and Ninja, but Knights, Thieves and Bandits, Royalty, the Emperor, everything. Even though a Ninja probably can't jump 500 feet in the air, if that fact is made common knowledge, they might as well be able to jump 500 feet in the air.

The facination with the Ninja is just that, the mystical and distinct image that they bring. Like how the story of King Arthur still facinates people today, even though much of it is just myth. There's nothing wrong with that is there?

Although remember, people like Miyamoto Musashi, Jean of Arc, and Hattori Hanzo were real people, even if Ninja can't jump really high, and Samurai can't kill 1000 people in one strike that doesn't mean there's still legends in history who really did things to support the exaggeration behind they're "classes".

I'm really off topic now. On topic, I do really think the San series should be introduced, especially as the level cap slowly rises, the Ninja need something to keep themselves uniquely useful, not falling into the "Its only good for a sub" realm.(God forbid). Like you guys said though, I bet they would of released San by now if they didn't realize that Utsusemi was being abused as a tanking tool now, so if they ever did release San they'd probably exclude Utsusemi among its lineup. (Though if Ni elemental is as potent as it is now, San and Ni together would be more than enough to warrent more consideration in combat..)

Someone mentioned what the Ninja was intended for if it wasn't intended for Utsusemi tanking. The programmers themselves said that they never intended Utsusemi to be used in that way, rather used as a Last resort incase of being hit. My guess is that they wanted the Ninja to be used as a class that allowed the whole party to take advantage of any enemy weakness. In essense be used to allow the whole party to be able to fight any monster and adapt to it since they can enfeeble and lower elemental resistence to any one element. Thats why I think Katana WS's are so elemental heavy. Me and a friend were talking about Nin/Rdm, and although its not a combo that very many use its probably the closest to how Square originally intended the Ninja to be used, a party enfeebler. Though if they were meant to be used like that the programmers should of given them a physical defense lowering ability too, as well as much higher potency of the Elemental and enfeebles so they could stand on they're own more. Honestly, I can't see how they didn't forsee the Ninja being used as a blink tank, it seems so obvious. They're other abilities are too spread out and soft too, maybe with right preparation a Non Blink tank Ninja can exist but its much harder than i think intended to make work.

If the Ninja is meant to be a blink tank though, and the programmers choose to let that remain like Mitsurugi said, they need something more...physical. The elemental is damn useful but a Critical Hit % up passive would be right up a Ninja's alley, and maybe something to break Defense in multiple ways, like Knight abilities in FFTactics. And Throwing Weapon Skills are definitely something that would help. Some said that it would be questionable because it would rival with the Ranger but anyone who's played Ranger for an extended period of time knows that the Ranger relies on much much more than just Ranged WS's. Ninja's would never get Side Winder on they're own, as well as a whole mesh of other abilities the Ranger uses. Throwing WS's would be a fantastic way to solve the Katana WS damage problem. The Katana WS's would be effect based, and the Throwing WS would be for pure damage based use. Throwing WS's, a Critical Hit passive, and Ninja's A+ in throwing ability would make a very freightening combination that wouldn't be unrealistic at all.

Any blink tanker here can tell you that any addition to damage dealing for hate keeping would be a very, very welcome addition.

[mirazh]

i agree with the people who said more armor selection for ninja's, they have a unique look that they don't get in FFXI. maybe get some feet slotted armor that raises our sneak? (which the AF probably already has it lol) next update i'd LOVE to see some armor dye to help customize our looks, like they did on EQ, not necissarly for the armor, but for the slots if it is easier..i'd like to see the throw ability as well as someone mentioned....maybe giving us a passive haste at a higher lvl...i think the sneak attack should be moved to ninja's instead of thieves.....as i see it as more of an assaisn's ability (which thieves aren't as much as ninja's) but i see how that could be over powering heh

[TMPikachu]

Ninjas look unique enough to me, they share their armor with monks and samurai.

Though it'd be nice to have them branch off
have monks wear other kinds of fighting uniforms (chinese styled ones w/ those sashes maybe)

have ninjas keep the current armored gi look

get the samurai some non AF armor, lamellar would work great.

[Hisdon]

I'd make it so you didn't have to buy powders...jus the scroll