Dragon Kick and Asuran Fist damage?

[Zevhades]

Never seen TP return from dragon kick being over 10%, then again, I usually sub thief for it, but still.

[Kibagami]

Right now i only have Raging Fists (46 MNK -_-) and i get 15% tp back when all 5(6?) hits land... Asuran should give back more than 16%.

I'm pretty sure the 2 first hits give me 5%tp each. And I am pretty sure H2H works just like DualWield...were it gives you 1 extra hit on every WS (for exmaple 6 hits on Raging Fists, 4 on Combo, 2 on Backhandblow, etc).

[Lone Dragon]

Originally posted by ZQM
Incorrect. If that was true, I would do 3000+ Steel Cyclones when Double Attack fires off. That's not the case, Double Attack only adds 200-400 damage to Steel Cyclone.

I brought this up in the WS formula thread, and Apple Pie replied by saying a Double Attack on a weaponskill always has a 1 fTP modifier, regardless of how much TP you have or what weaponskill you use.

You misunderstood what I meant.
I mean the CHANCE of a DA on a WS is roughly the same as a DA on a normal attack round.
I was not speaking of damage.

Originally posted by ZQM
Not just unlikely, but impossible. Double Attack only stacks once per weapon. For instance, it is impossible to get more then one double attack on a weaponskill with a Great Axe (For instance, Raging Rush). The max double attacks on a WS for Dual Axes is two. I'm not sure how this would work with hand-to-hand. While it is one weapon, you're also attack with two fists. However, you wouldn't be able to exceed two double attacks anyway.

You're probably right here.
If you're right, then it is able to fire off with both hits, at least since we can do so on our normal attack rounds.
As a Warrior you would have more experience with it than I do, so I put some consideration into this matter.
However, though you have had much more practice with it, I can't exactly take your word as gospel because, for me at least, it doesn't fire off enough for me to believe one way or another.
I have believed this for a while now, and my belief was further strengthened upon seeing the Rampage damage mod.
0.50, if I remember correctly.
It's very possible that this data is incorrect, but as most seem to believe it a valid source, allow me to ask a question.
How can you get high numbers with that without hitting more than 6 times (7 with Dual Weild)?
I distinctly remember seeing a 1k rampage once and I believe 900+ are not unheard of.
I don’t really believe a critical hit would account for most of it, assuming it fires off.
I always thought that if it was possible to DA on each hit of a multi-hit WS, than surely a WAR would be most able to pull it off.
I admit I have little knowledge on Axe WSs, other than their SC compatibilities, but even with the best axe and a lot of STR & Att, I doubt you could that much with only 6 hits.
If that is possible, then it would be very difficult to do it as regularly as it seems to occur.
I'm not trying to be dogmatic here, I actually would like to understand.

[ZQM]

You misunderstood what I meant.
I mean the CHANCE of a DA on a WS is roughly the same as a DA on a normal attack round.
I was not speaking of damage.

Sorry for the misunderstanding

Onto the math :O

Assuming a Woody+Jugger combo, along with +38 STR (38 for easier math, though that's around where most WAR's STR falls) and Hume WAR/NIN has base 72 STR.

1st melee hit

WSC = integer(STR x Modifer) x @
WSC = integer(110 x 0.3) x .83
WSC = 27.39
WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP

//Assuming fSTR is capped (Which is normaly the case on EXP mobs)

WD = (50 + 13.5 + 27.39) * .5
WD = 45.445
Melee Damage = WD * PDIF

//I can't really check at the moment, but I think most monsters check at equal DEF when around 400, and "Low DEF" around 600. So let's assume mobs DEF is 400 where as attackers is 600.

Melee Damage = 45.445 * (600/400)
Melee Damage = 45.445 * 1.5
Melee Damage = 68.1675

So first Rampage hit = 68.1675 damage. The next 4 (While the first hit does have a .5 TP modifier, the rest have a 1 TP modifier. Only the first hit of multi-hit WSs have the TP modifier written there, the rest (Regardless of TP or WS) have a 1 TP modifier):

WSC = integer(STR x Modifer) x @
WSC = integer(110 x 0.3) x .83
WSC = 27.39
WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP
WD = (50 + 13.5 + 27.39) * 1
WD = 90.89
Melee Damage = WD * PDIF
Melee Damage = 90.89 * (600/400)
Melee Damage = 90.89 * 1.5
Melee Damage = 136.335

So the first 5 hits of Rampage do 613.5075 togeather.

Onto offhand weapon

WSC = integer(STR x Modifer) x @
WSC = integer(110 x 0.3) x .83
WSC = 27.39
WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP
WD = (46 + 13.1 + 27.39) * 1
WD = 86.49
Melee Damage = WD * PDIF
Melee Damage = 86.49 * (600/400)
Melee Damage = 86.49 * 1.5
Melee Damage = 129.735

With the off-hand added in for the 6th hit, that's 743.2425 damage.

Now onto figuring out the damage of Double Attacks

For main hand
(Same Math as the 2-5 hits on main hand)
Melee Damage=136.335

For off hand
(Same math, doesn't change)
Melee Damage = 129.735

And Crits happen very very often on Rampage (I'd say averages atleast 1 crit per rampage). This can be seen by Mighty Strikes. Mighty Strikes doesn't boost up Rampage all to much compared to average Rampage damage, where as it doubles (if not more) the damage of something like Mistral Axe.

Crit damage of Main hand 1st hit:
Critical Damage = Melee Damage * 1.5
Critical Damage = 68.1675 * 1.5
Critical Damage = 102.25125

Crit damage of Main hand 2-5 hits and Double Attack:
Critical Damage = Melee Damage * 1.5
Critical Damage = 136.335 * 1.5
Critical Damage = 204.5025

Crit damage of Off hand and Double Attack:
Critical Damage = Melee Damage * 1.5
Critical Damage = 129.735 * 1.5
Critical Damage = 194.6025

[Lone Dragon]

Ah, I see.
Thank your for clearing that up.