Ahh, the joy of counterstance.

[oneiscompany]

I remember when I first got the skill Counterstance, and I remember how damn disappointed I was at the fact that it seemed to be really really worthless. Oh damn was I wrong.

While leveling on Sand Cockatrices at level 62, I noticed that like I usually do, I was stealing the hate from the tanks left and right. One round when I was hitting my macros, I accidently hit a macro that I had put to Counterstance for some odd reason and lo and behold, I started to counter nearly every hit thrown my way. This got me thinking, and I spent the next two weeks farming the necessary 2.1mil gil that it takes on the Caitsith server to buy Cross-counters, two Avenger Earrings, and whatever those Akido pants are.

Now, equipped with my +9 counter, it is unbelieveable how little I get hit and how much extra damage I put out. Granted I don't counter all of the hits, and the mobs usually hit me for about 2x the damage they do anyway, but if I get attacked 5 times, and counter even two of those hits, I'm technically only taking 100 more damage then usual, while returning anywhere from 100 to 300 more (I love how you can counter for like 3x your normal damage on IT

Counterstance has also helped me immensely with soloing downtimes, because when I fight mobs that won't give me xp they almost NEVER hit me and they die almost twice as fast, so even though chakra has a 5min timer I'm almost never below 200hp of my max, so I just run around and do what I want

To further glorify the beauty that is counterstance, last week after helping some monks with their AF3s, I stayed alone in oztroja to experiment. First I went to a Yagudo Prelate(WHM) that was an even match at lvl65. I solod this with suprising ease, and having lost most of my hp to dia, I went straight to a DC Yagudo Flagellant(MNK). Counterstance came through with flying colors and in the end I walked away with 600hp, 172 hard-earned xp, and the right to tell my dark friends to stuff it~

So what I'm saying is before you hate, give it a shot and you too may see the wonders I have

[Voila!]

Bravo.

Did you tank with all the Counter+ gear? Were you asked or suggested to tank again? Would you tank again?

[specialk]

Re: Ahh, the joy of counterstance.

Originally posted by oneiscompany

First I went to a Yagudo Prelate(WHM)...

prelates are blm, which is why you see so many blms and their pts beating them up in hopes of a paper drop. i have helped camp dozens of papers, and find it strange that you were not hit by a single nuke? or to not even have seen him attempt to nuke you is strange.

sounds like you are really beginning to enjoy the abilities a mnk has at higher lvls - and you should be cos mnks rock. but i think you may be getting carried away. sorry, i'm not buying.

[edit:] so as not to detract from the point of your post - yes, counterstance, in certain cirumstances, is incredibly useful. at 73 i helped a friend kill knight crawlers in CN for coffer key and i would counter at least 7/10 hits, and i had 0 counter+ gear on. you can counter at anytime, no matter what you're doing. i've countered mid-blast, mid-asuran, mid-dragon, etc. it's pretty cool.

it also has a timer like defender, in that it's cooldown is exactly the same as its duration - meaning you can basically have it on nonstop.

[oneiscompany]

prelates are blm, which is why you see so many blms and their pts beating them up in hopes of a paper drop. i have helped camp dozens of papers, and find it strange that you were not hit by a single nuke? or to not even have seen him attempt to nuke you is strange.

Hmm my fault, lack of short term memory, it even dropped blm testimony. As to the nuking thing, I didn't say that it didn't nuke/try to nuke me, I said I lost most of my hp to dia.

sounds like you are really beginning to enjoy the abilities a mnk has at higher lvls - and you should be cos mnks rock. but i think you may be getting carried away. sorry, i'm not buying.

It sucks that a lot of things people post aren't true, I hate to see such distrust, and granted it could have just been sheer luck that caused me to counter so much. Just to let you know I've been playing since November 1st, and I've had my monk 50+ for at least 6 months now, on top of having every soloable quest done in all the cities and being 2nd in gear to only one other NA mnk on my server (he has peacock charm on me ><)..so I'm just saying that I have no reason to lie, I know what I'm capable of, even if you don't! ....and I hope this isn't coming off as a flame or anything, just point/counterpoint

One more thing..what's your preferred weapon at 73?

Were you asked or suggested to tank again? Would you tank again?

Oh and...que?

[specialk]

Originally posted by oneiscompany

One more thing..what's your preferred weapon at 73?

hmmm, reading back now i can see that i shouldn't have said what i did. i didn't mean to imply that you are lying, but your inaccurate info was misleading. i'm 75 and i do know what i'm capable of - but that area, while not too dangerous, should still be treated with caution.

i've been using spartans since i was able to afford them, which was around 61 or 62, i think. i had enough for cc's and spartans, but felt (and still feel) that cc's are horribly overpriced. on my server you can get spectacles and spartans for the price of cc's, which is superior imo.

if cash is tight, feral fangs are the obvious choice. great dmg, great delay... what more could you ask for? i have avengers, but i don't use them for fights that matter cos i feel spartans are still better. atm, i'm going for indras and will keep my spartans for the odd BC, or until i'm forced to sell them cos i need the loot

[Rossb2k]

Counterstance is a really great ability if you know how to use it, and it's been able to save my ass on more than one occasion. If you like it so much you should scratch and claw until you can do Dynamis-Bastok and get a pair of Melee Gaiters (pretty common drop in there) that enhance the ability. As far as I can tell, it raises your countering (with no other +counter gear on) to around 90%. The main advantage to this at high end is the absolutely devastating solo combo this can make. a 75mnk/nin with those can pretty much solo anything... because you counter before you eat shadows, and if the mob happens to get through counterstance, you won't take any damage. I've yet to level my sub past 19 but even with utsusemi:ichi you can solo a good number of mobs using this method.

[Pandaman]

I have never seen a counter when shadows are up. Will test this more later.

[Fuzzbox]

utsusemi blink is checked before counter, however i'm not sure about the spell blink (i would assume it's in the same place as utsusemi, but because it's not 100% effective it can seem that it comes after counter/guard/dodge)

i believe counter is above guard in the "can't-hit-me" hierarchy, because when i pull hate i will counter maybe 4 or 5 times before i get a guard.

[Taoist]

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[Rossb2k]

I didn't do much testing with it, just some fooling around in gustav against some bones, and I coulda sworn I countered before all my shadows were gone... I'll try it again to make sure its not some kinda wierd hidden trait on the AF2 boots.

[FinalPhantasy13]

Slighty off topic but wanted to say hello to Oneiscompany as a fellow caitsith mnk Also, wanted to ask how you managed to save up all that gil in just two weeks! I have become very interested in the CC's and don't really wanna level past 55 until I have a pair so I can march proudly into parties. Anyway, I would like any money making tips if you don't mind ^^

[Redlimit]

The main advantage a 'tanking' Monk has is its usually very easy to keep hate once you are high in level. The damage you deal is often enough to have the monster pretty mad at you, and using a few abilites on the side like Provoke, Boost, etc, will have him facing you for the majority of battles.

However, be wary of counter-tanking (or regular tanking for that matter). No matter how good you get or think you get at it, you are not a suitable replacement main tank for anything.

Case in point: EXP off of spiders in Dragon's Aery - level range 68-71. A sickle slash done at full HP will do about 1000 damage to a PLD with Sentinel on. To you however, you will take over 1500. If you have Counterstance on, you will take over 2200. I've also never seen a sickle slash countered, so don't count on that.

Monks can tank things fine for most quests, farming, and random nonsense. Anything that is more of your level or higher will eat you alive though, especially after 60+.

You can do what I call 'temporary tanking' after level 60. You can tank, but only for a limited time before you take way too much damage. More damage on you is more damage that has to be healed, and that will mess up hate levels. There is a reason you don't see any Monks tanking seriously for EXP partys much past level 50 - its not efficient and often dangerous and slow. Anything that reads IT to you will eat through your large HP and VIT in no time.

Anyway, on Counterstance it certainly is a better abilty than most people think it is, but it has selective uses. I too had Melee Gaiters from Dynamis, and with them on and Counterstance farming mobs of EP or Too Weak was a joke. I would get hit once every 3rd or 4th fight, if that. This made farming extremely fast as any damage I did take was quickly healed every 5 minutes with Chakra (didn't hurt that I had Melee Gloves for this either ). Beyond that though, I would never use it in a situation where I was taking a huge beatdown from something, its still too risky, even with Counter +15.

EDIT: Argh, spelling.

[Taoist]

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[Addicted2trance]

I have tried counterstance with my nin sub and I do counter while I have shadows up.

[Pandaman]

You sure about that? I tested it it for some time earlier (with AF2 boots) and countered only after my last shadow had gone down. The reason it's useful is you can counter while recasting utsusemi. Countering while shadows are up would make monk pretty much invincible since shadows would never be down.

P.S. It can be really cool in situations where you are a goner already and need to take a chance. Our whm died in skill-up pt to two korrigan links and I was done for, so threw on counterstance and luckily countered like 95% of hits. With two monk-type mobs it looks much faster than hundred fists