Another damage parse, level 56

[Thark601]

Originally posted by Hisdon


The origenal reason I posted here was to point out, the creator of this post has the best posible MNK weapon in the game,

you've pointed this out twice, and the problem is it's not true

it may be the most expensive, but that's due to the counter, and that don't help you do more dmg when your not tanking

Cross-Counters lvl 50
19dmg, 96delay, +3acc, -10evasion, +10 counter

Spartan Cesti lvl 58
dmg20, delay113, +2acc

not to mention there are even better than the Spartan cest, but i feel 1 example is enuff...

in fact damage wise the cross-counters don't seem that much > than the tactician magician hook +1 i'm wearing

[Ungerpurr]

If we're talking damage output, it's true, cross-counters are not the best monk weapon in the game. That comes from the four-part quest involving Dynamis. The second-best monk weapon damage-wise is the Kaiser Knuckles, which I have to take on faith because they've yet to be posted in the AH on Titan. The cross-counters are merely the third-most-damaging monk weapon in the game; and they hold to this title by a mere +1 accuracy over Koenig's Knuckles.

At level 58, keeping in mind we do get two attacks per round:

With Cross-counters:

Base Damage: 193 / 9.1 * .9 + 3 = 22
Base Delay: 340

Total Damage: 41
Total Delay: 436

With Spartan Cesti:

Total Damage: 42
Total Delay: 453

41/436 = .094036697248
42/453 = .092715231788

Cross-counters have about a ~1.4% better damage/delay ratio than Spartan Cesti at level 58.

At 65 (because I'm assuming most people would go w/ Feral Fangs at 66):

Base Damage: 228 / 9.1 * .9 + 3 = 25.54 (I'm assuming this gets truncated, but maybe it is rounded up?)
Base Delay: 320

With Cross-counters:

Total Damage: 44
Total Delay: 416

With Spartan Cesti:

Total Damage: 45
Total Delay: 433

44/416 = .105769230769
45/433 = .103926096998

Cross-counters have a ~1.8% better damage/delay ratio than Spartan Cesti at level 65.

Yeah, they're not a lot better than spartan cesti. 1 more accuracy, +5 counter (which I hope will prove valuable in genkai 5) is about all you get. The problem is, I'm 56, not 58, so I can't use spartan cesti yet...so let's compare to a weapon that would more commonly be used at this level, Tct. Magician Hooks +1, which I believe are 15/86? We'll go with that.

At level 56:

Base Damage: 183 / 9.1 * .9 + 3 = 21
Base Delay: 340

With Cross-counters:

Total Damage: 40
Total Delay: 436

With Tct. Magician's Hooks +1:

Total Damage: 36
Total Delay: 426

40/436 = .091743119266
36/426 = .084507042254

Cross-counters have an 8.6% advantage in damage/delay ratio over Tct. Magician's Hooks +1 at 56.

Since many have posted that they didn't think the +20 ATK on the kote was worthwhile anymore by level 54 (although I disagree), I hope no one will come and start shouting about the +10 ATK on the hooks.

This is the point where everyone starts bashing me for crunching numbers and tells me to get a life, even though they've probably logged far more than the ~43 days /played that I have on FFXI. Go ahead, I don't mind.

Now, I see some defensive drks here, and I have no clue why. I didn't say that drks suck, I just noted the fact that I did significantly more damage than what I consider to be a well-equipped drk. I was surprised by this, if you can't tell from the tone of my post, because the prevailing wisdom given out by almost everyone playing the game is that DRKs do the most damage other than a ranger. This perception is changing, but it is currently the way things are.

That perception is wrong.

I'm not trying to bait anyone here, I'm just stating fact, taken from a parse, that logged every bit of damage the drk did, except for the damage from poison 1 when he pulled, which was around 30% of the fights. I can add 20 damage onto 30% of the fights if you really want, and see how the numbers come out then.

I didn't say drks are worthless, and I don't mean to imply that, either. I'm just saying that I outdamage a fairly well-equipped drk, being a fairly well-equipped monk myself, by a large margin, well outside the room for error.

Is monk better than drk? That depends entirely upon what the PT needs. If they need someone to start a distortion chain between levels 49 and 60, no. If they need someone to stack a few more debuffs onto the monster, no. If they need someone to just do damage, and nothing else, yes.

The skillchain in this case was not hugely important, as we had no MB anyway. But, in a (for example) pld thf drk blm blm rdm PT, the skillchain would be extremely important. I can't help with distortion yet. A drk would definitely be a better choice than me in that situation.

I'm not sure what Thark meant when he said that Raging Fists is burnt out before you hit 42. It's hands-down the most damaging WS in the game outside of a thf's SATAVB from 41-49. At 49, a DRG that doesn't suck can and will do more damage with Penta, but Raging Fists is still top-three.

I realize that Drk WS completely blow until level 60. I don't know if Guillotine will make up the difference, I haven't seen it in action in PT yet. I don't really care if it puts drk on top, I'm playing monk because I like the job; it's what I want to play.

At any rate, the main reason I posted was to show that monks can do comparable damage to bow-using rangers. People have this perception that monks don't do good damage, a lot of people don't even mention mnk when they list off damage dealers.

This perception costs me groups. That's my bottom line. I figured the monk board would be a safe place to post a damage parse, and would garner some thoughtful commentary. It's not like I took this to the drk board and started bashing the job.

[Redlimit]

Cross-Counters aren't even the 3rd most damaging anymore. The only thing that makes them special is they are equippable at 50, and Counter+5 (and the Counter+5 is only useful for one fight in the whole game, Maat).

Feral Fangs --- +19 +96
Spartan Cesti --- +20 +113
Manoples --- +20 +122
Manoples +1 --- +21 +106

Not to mention that past 65/66, you will be using Shiva Claws a LOT, due to extremely high evasion IT enemies from that point onwards.

Manoples +1 are the highest damage/delay ratio H2H in the game (not counting Dynamis weapons).

[AkumuX]

It was posted above that Cross-Counters are "better" than Spartan Cesti.

With Cross-counters:

Base Damage: 193 / 9.1 * .9 + 3 = 22
Base Delay: 340

Total Damage: 41
Total Delay: 436

With Spartan Cesti:

Total Damage: 42
Total Delay: 453

41/436 = .094036697248
42/453 = .092715231788

Cross-counters have about a ~1.4% better damage/delay ratio than Spartan Cesti at level 58.

Can their price be justified over the Cesti? That's a player decision. I'll personally keep mine until after my Maat fight, then I'll worry about what I want. Somehow I doubt I'm gonna be called a "gimp" because I don't have the 2 better claws...

[Griddlecake]

Why is it that every DRK thinks that when we start comparing Them to something else that we're officially bashing them?

What she was talking about had nothing to do with "bashing DRK's". As in fact, out of all the MNK's that post on this forum, I would say that Ungerpurr is one person that would be above all that...

She's just giving something to talk about. Simple as that.

Anyway, concerning the CC's, I would prolly keep them until the bitter end. But instead of worrying about how much dmg I can deal, I'll work on its strength, and that's it's Counter +5. Add a couple Avenger Earrings, get the Temple Hose. At 72 buy (or craft) every single piece of Rasetsu +1 gear you can get your hands on, and go to work. And don't be afraid of using you Counterstance. Do anything to help increase your Counter ability. This should work to the CC's strength.

I really want to try that... See if it works well...:spin:

[Toede]

I just recently downloaded the updated version of that parser(was using one from a long time ago, looks VERY nice now.)

Heres my quick question. What was yalls accuracy % at that level now?

Ever since i hit 52 and fighting against those damn robber crabs, it seems my accuracy has hit the shitter, but im still hitting for 55-65% of the time(depends on if i have focus going) I just hate seeing hit, wiff, wiff, hit(double attacks and kicks in there) a round. I was still doing the most melee damage in the party. but i felt like i wasnt pulling my weight(then again, i think we were about 1 level too low to be fighting these things) And my raging fists were horrid, was embarrassed to be ending a skillchain with them, sometimes only 2-3 would hit for only 200 damage. blah.

My current setup is like this....
tactical whatever whatever they are called(the level 50 ones with +10 attack)
emperor pin
spike necklace(hehe im horrible with names on these items =)
the 2 +3 agi earrings
Jujitsu Gi
Ochuidos Kote(or the +7 str bracelets, been trying them both out lately to see if i can tell a difference)
Sniper Rings x2
Brown Belt
RSE elvaan pants
Fumas

so hopefully the crabs were just a level or 2 too high for me, or is it going to be like this the rest of the way? thanks for the imput.

[Jifan]

Which Robber Crabs? boyada or Kuftal? Kuftal you can do @ 52, picks up @ 53. 54 is when those crabs start to vary in exp. From there move to Boyada Tree Robber Crabs. Pull knight Crawlers if you cannot find any Robber Crabs. Watch out for Aquarius. NM crab that beats the crap out of 75 PLD.

Having a bard is almost essential now, I PT with a set bard and whm atm. We went to Kuftal and Boyada a little low and we had Double Madrigal on at all times. Once we hit consistently, madrigal and the att bonus song.

Equipment wise, drop those AGI Earrings.. useful to RNG and THF only IMO, replace with Beetle Earrings +1. In one more level, try the Master's Satabaki, if you have the gil, the +1 version are nice.

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Griddlecake
Why is it that every DRK thinks that when we start comparing Them to something else that we're officially bashing them?

What she was talking about had nothing to do with "bashing DRK's". As in fact, out of all the MNK's that post on this forum, I would say that Ungerpurr is one person that would be above all that...

She's just giving something to talk about. Simple as that.

Anyway, concerning the CC's, I would prolly keep them until the bitter end. But instead of worrying about how much dmg I can deal, I'll work on its strength, and that's it's Counter +5. Add a couple Avenger Earrings, get the Temple Hose. At 72 buy (or craft) every single piece of Rasetsu +1 gear you can get your hands on, and go to work. And don't be afraid of using you Counterstance. Do anything to help increase your Counter ability. This should work to the CC's strength.

I really want to try that... See if it works well...:spin:

ok maybe Cross-Counters isn't the best MNK weapon, but it's still a pretty damn nice weapon, and it's much better than those pos Bone Scyths (I'll admit this, those things suck ass lol >.>) and it's no suprise to me. Personally I just don't want people to get the idea of things along the lines of this post... http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=43221

[BENWALLACE]

BIG BEN THINK THAT CROSS COUNTERS WEAPON DAMAGE GREATLY SKEWS CHART COMPARSION CAUSE IT SO GOOD AT SUCH EARLY LVL LOL

BIG BEN THINK THAT MAYBE NEXT TIME COMPARE WHEN DRAK KNIGHT CAN SPAM HIS GUILTLOTEINE LIKE YOU GET TO SPAM RANGEKI OK GO

[Ungerpurr]

I haven't kept any parses from back when I started in Kuftal (at level 51), but I remember my accuracy was what I considered to be pretty abysmal (right around where yours is, ~60% or so). It started getting a lot better around 53, and by 55 I was usually closer to 75% accuracy. I think my accuracy in most xp situations varies from 65-75% depending upon the difficulty of the monster I'm fighting. Raging fists really started to pick up around 54/55, by then I was landing them for 300-400 damage on average.

Anyway, as I said in the comparison post, CCs don't have a much better damage/delay ratio than Spartan Cesti. They're the same as feral fangs (yet fangs lack accuracy), they are slightly better than Manoples, and probably indistinguisable from Manoples +1 (do those add accuracy?).

Are cross-counters worth keeping, to me? I dunno, maybe, maybe not (started another thread regarding that, actually). I know they'd be nice to have for genkai 5. Aside from that, they are beyond a shadow of a doubt the best weapon at level 50, and nothing else comes close until Spartan Cesti.

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Ungerpurr

Are cross-counters worth keeping, to me? I dunno, maybe, maybe not (started another thread regarding that, actually). I know they'd be nice to have for genkai 5. Aside from that, they are beyond a shadow of a doubt the best weapon at level 50, and nothing else comes close until Spartan Cesti.

that's what I meant lol :sweat:

[Naota1369]

LOL hisdon i just read through that thread that you posted about.....

wow.....just....wow

that meleefighter guy is the biggest idiot i have ever seen....and i play a monk lol

thanks for posting that thread though it gave me a damn good laugh to read all of his posts hehehe

[Jifan]

? on the parser. I ran the parser as the site says to, I could get a reading on 1.8.1 but with 2.1.0 I cannot get anything but the chatlog to come checked. I have my attacks and party attacks on... still nothing about damage is read. ><

Any ideas on whats going on?

[Hisdon]

Originally posted by Naota1369
LOL hisdon i just read through that thread that you posted about.....

wow.....just....wow

that meleefighter guy is the biggest idiot i have ever seen....and i play a monk lol

thanks for posting that thread though it gave me a damn good laugh to read all of his posts hehehe

ya...I don't want an army of them that get the idea that DRK suck compared to MNK 24/7. Another thing lots of people don't mention is if you exp in the sky 70-75 instead of bones. You fight Arcana up there, which is our specialty...from what I hear, we do to them what you do to bones

[navpops]