Mnk/Drk

[Krappyappy]

meh. drk sub isn't half bad.

you do get better inherent stat boosts from drk sub than war sub. for a mnk, hitting power should always come first.

souleater would gain too much hate, and drain too much hp.

but that is also the case with a drk main...why should it be any worse with mnk than it is with drk? after all, mnks get more hp to work with. if you truly believed that, then even drks shouldn't use it.

while it is true that drk magic is pretty useless as a sub, what do you care? you're a mnk. if you wanted to cast magic you would have been a different class, right?

the important thing is whether the skills and stat boosts you gain complement your main job. as far as i can see, many drk skills and bonuses do.

[TMPikachu]

and if dark magic is wasted as a sub...

a /war wastes provoke and def boost on a class not made to be the tank, but it's still nice to have.

and on the freak chances you need to draw hate, a soul eating mnk would draw alot of aggro anyways, right?

[albert lee]

you forget that h2h is hitting twice, with faster intervals, thus more hate for a monk then a DRK with more hp lost.

btw, you are going to get hit eventually, the def bonus is nice to have around. provoke is usuaful too, you need to save the tank sometimes, and fuidama. okthxbye

[TMPikachu]

so use soul eater to draw massive hate.

how does soul eater work anyways? is it an attack bonus unrelated to the weapon being used?

you would think double attacks with kicks would draw hate too ^^

though all in all, I would rather be a mnnk/war than mnk/drk probably

[albert lee]

yes it is an attack bonus unrelated to the weapon dmg. in other words the attack bonus does not show. souleater drains 10% of your current life so think about it. monks 2 hits/20% of life gone, 3 hits/30% life gone. if you use souleater to draw hate, you can be 1shotted if not countered.

[Kossori]

The only noticable thing that a dark has is 2 attack ups you can get. But if you get Ochiudo's Kote, there is 2 attack up, then war sub, use berserk, there is another 2+ attack ups, and then if you eat a meat mithkabob, yet another 2+ attack up, and finally add in the warrior attack bonus. If your base attack was 100, then after all that you would have 173+ attack and thats a LOT more than you'd get with Dark.

[Krappyappy]

ha ha....funny stuff.

The only noticable thing that a dark has is 2 attack ups you can get. But if you get Ochiudo's Kote, there is 2 attack up, then war sub, use berserk, there is another 2+ attack ups, and then if you eat a meat mithkabob, yet another 2+ attack up, and finally add in the warrior attack bonus. If your base attack was 100, then after all that you would have 173+ attack and thats a LOT more than you'd get with Dark.

most of what you said has nothing to do with subjob. you can eat food and use gear with any job combination...i'm surprised you even bring that stuff into consideration. berserk can be replaced with last resort, and drk sub has one more atk up than war sub, which makes up for the lack of warcry over time. then there's the much debated souleater, which if nothing else can be used to beef up weapon skills for harder hitting renkei, then canceled immediately after to conserve HP or limit hate.

btw, you are going to get hit eventually, the def bonus is nice to have around. provoke is usuaful too, you need to save the tank sometimes, and fuidama. okthxbye

ugh. self-righteousness - though in your case more amusing than annoying. is there no end to the incessant 'kthxbaiggnorepwntnubz0r!!!1111111'? you convince no one with that sort of sophomoric nonsense.

anyway to reply to your point, yes, def and war skills are all useful. this argument, of course, can be applied to pretty much every skill in the game. there's really no instance when an added bonus or skill OF ANY SORT is completely useless. you have not, however, pointed out WHY they're better than drk abilities...all you have said is 'i think war sub is better because i think it's better because it's better.'

in a nutshell: drk sub has its benefits, especially if you want to concentrate on being a pure damage dealer. are there costs associated with these benefits? of course. but you'll find that it will always be so, no matter which job combination you pick: you'll always gain some and lose some. as far as souleater goes, it's really a very good skill to have for any damage dealer. don't let the reactionary shallowness of some players fool you into thinking that souleater will get you killed: a smart player can exploit it for maximum efficiency. a monk with a damage modifier like souleater can be a dangerous weapon indeed.

personally, i'd just as soon go with something unique and interesting as opposed to the 'omg my mnk/war is just like all the other mnk/war out there but i can provokez0rz with my slightly higher def and that makes me better than you.'

[Aneyeisuponyou]

I like mnk/war because it gives me double attack and provoke which is useful if you have a thf ( like many groups ) and they trick attack your tank at the beginning of the fight, which is only possible if the monster is facing away from them, i.e. towards me. If everyone else on the server likes mnk/war also fine. I'm not going to choose something else because mnk/war is popular.

[Ghostraven]

Just to back up my earlier post:

Levelling a drk for a sub involves buying / questing spells. Why would you go through this trouble knowing when you sub it for monk your spells will be useless?

Then again there are people who level SMN with no avatars just for the mp boost as a sub...:sweat:

Having drk as a sub for monk involves:

-Levelling monk to 30 to get the advance job Drk.
-Having a sub for mnk while getting to 30, War would be the logical choice because u need a war for drk quest.
-levelling drk for sub.

MUCH easier to just go Mnk/War. War/Mnk is a cinch to level as well.

[albert lee]

ugh. self-righteousness - though in your case more amusing than annoying. is there no end to the incessant 'kthxbaiggnorepwntnubz0r!!!1111111'? you convince no one with that sort of sophomoric nonsense.

wtf.. your annoying me like hell. by saying okthxbye it seems like i have sparked your latent anger and you need to bust it out on someone, because you refuse to think that ur subs the holy of holy, but in fact its not good till you get to 60-65 where you get trick/spinslash/crossreaper. you need to chill. i'm not trying to convince no one and you need to back off. was i talking to you? no... click the back button and go away.

personally, i'd just as soon go with something unique and interesting as opposed to the 'omg my mnk/war is just like all the other mnk/war out there but i can provokez0rz with my slightly higher def and that makes me better than you.

yeah self-righteousness..:angel:

in a nutshell: drk sub has its benefits, especially if you want to concentrate on being a pure damage dealer. are there costs associated with these benefits? of course. but you'll find that it will always be so, no matter which job combination you pick: you'll always gain some and lose some. as far as souleater goes, it's really a very good skill to have for any damage dealer. don't let the reactionary shallowness of some players fool you into thinking that souleater will get you killed: a smart player can exploit it for maximum efficiency. a monk with a damage modifier like souleater can be a dangerous weapon indeed.

any sub has its benefits, but not all subs work. you see all of those topics in the forums? try reading it. all the subs have been explained. and like i said, with soul eater 10% of life is going to be taken per swing. monks swing twice, with kick 3 times, that is 30 % of your life, with shortened grapple intervals, they would loose more hp faster than a whm could heal.

[Kossori]

Originally posted by Krappyappy
most of what you said has nothing to do with subjob. you can eat food and use gear with any job combination...i'm surprised you even bring that stuff into consideration. berserk can be replaced with last resort, and drk sub has one more atk up than war sub, which makes up for the lack of warcry over time. then there's the much debated souleater, which if nothing else can be used to beef up weapon skills for harder hitting renkei, then canceled immediately after to conserve HP or limit hate.

Ok take food and gear out and you have:

Dark: 2 Attack ups, Last Resort, watered down Souleater, crap MP/spells
War: 1 Attack Up, 1 Defense Up, Double Attack, Berserk, Provoke, Warcry

From what i've seen, Last Resort is just Berserk that lasts for 30 seconds, though i may be wrong.


And another thing, you do NOT get better stat boosts, at level 75 a Dark has the same base STR as a Warrior. At level 75 with Dark sub the only thing you'd have more of than a warrior (that you may need) is 2 VIT, but you would have 2 less agility. This is based off of a 75/37 Hume.

[breal777]

Originally posted by Krappyappy
meh. drk sub isn't half bad.

you do get better inherent stat boosts from drk sub than war sub. for a mnk, hitting power should always come first.


but that is also the case with a drk main...why should it be any worse with mnk than it is with drk? after all, mnks get more hp to work with. if you truly believed that, then even drks shouldn't use it.

while it is true that drk magic is pretty useless as a sub, what do you care? you're a mnk. if you wanted to cast magic you would have been a different class, right?

the important thing is whether the skills and stat boosts you gain complement your main job. as far as i can see, many drk skills and bonuses do.

I'll reply to this by order...

For a MNK, /WAR sub far outshines /DRK, you get better stat boosts from /WAR due to the attack+/defense+/double attack/berserk/provoke/defender/warcry...

Good Drks don't sure it too often BECAUSE the hate it pulls, I usually at most see a Drk use it maybe 2-3 times in a 4 hour PT due to the hate it pulls...

Drk magic is good, but only when you have the MP for it, which makes it a waste to even sub, therefore you are gimping yourself more and more doing /drk sub.

And again, /war is much better for all the reasons I stated in first part of post.

then there's the much debated souleater, which if nothing else can be used to beef up weapon skills for harder hitting renkei, then canceled immediately after to conserve HP or limit hate.

Most MNK ws' are all multi hit, therefore you kill all your HP right away and you will 60% of the time pull hate after using...so with that you'd die very very fast.