Dark's role in a party...Why haven't I been able to experience this?

[Vittra]

I'm only at level 30, so I understand DRK stats don't differ incredibly from Warriors up to this level and that is when we begin to really take form. But, up to this level all I have experienced are Warriors with horrible armor for their level, no defense and tank worth a crap, forcing me to be the main tank (Which not to sound like a jerk, but I think I'm pretty decent at it) in every party I've been in except when we had a Paladin...once. It's like they don't understand how important it is at lvl 30 NOT to be wearing a collage of Chain, Beetle & lizard armor, which is when I say, "Hold up....I think it would be better if I held the hate this round".

I guess I want to know, at higher levels will I actually get to experience the role of "heavy damage dealer watching his hate" as opposed to "Dark paladin because nobody has a clue"?

Sorry to sound bitter, I'll do anything I can and tank just fine to have a successful party , but I didn't chose Dark knight for it's defense capabilities :\


Also I think the answer could just be that our defenses are about the same and that I am just a warrior with a few boosts, is that it?

thx

[MAK]

DRK can always tank just need to build up your def, most likely you wont though with just berserk on if i get aggro i get hit about 140+ PLD 50-100ish ive been 1shoted many times as well use last resort funnel bats use jet stream -.-..Later you will mostly just sit back with berserk and hit the thing...

[Vittra]

thanks, I look forward to clobbering them from the side then. I just got souleater and want a chance to try it

[Satyricon]

As a DRK at my level so far, I have found that in the worst of times, we can take the damage. It might change I guess 60+, but for the time being, if the mobs decides it wants to rip my nipples off, there is no need to worry. The main tanks will get it off in time and stuff and I am not going down super fast. Add in drain and cure-3's, all is good.

[Shuugo]

From levels 1-30, a dark can certainly tank. I was almost always the tank from 1-35 (Even in Garlaige -_-) because people were like "oooh dark knight... experienced player! TANK!" I almost always pulled (they would always pull trains -.-) and I would always tank (they never knew how to keep aggro...). After level 30, I noticed an increasing damage difference from my tanking and a paladin. That's when I gave my tanking up, and let the warriors/paladins have their go. At this point, I was able to give tanking up since most of the people who were around 35+ knew at least a little bit about tanking and keeping the enmity.

But seriously, from 1-30, there isn't much of a damage difference from a DRK tanking and a WAR tanking. Afterwards, feel free to give up your tanking rights. :spin:

EDIT:

A dark's damage dealing role will definately show when you're level 30. At this point, you have your best ability souleater. Don't go souleater happy and use it whenever you have, but always make sure that the main tank has at least two provokes stacked with defender/warcry (war) sentinel/flash (pld) etc. before you go. This should be about 30 seconds into the fight where the tank has secured some/most of the hate. Now feel free to pull off a souleater+berzerk and go smack happy while the whm's throw a regen II to keep your hp up so you can do more damage. :spin:

[Vittra]

haha

LOL, thanks shuugo. Can stacking souleater + berzerk + last resort save a WHM from benediction?

satyricon - mother north

[Aldo]

I never tanked in a PT, ever, and never will.

[Dalmonth]

Originally posted by Aldo
I never tanked in a PT, ever, and never will.

Originally posted by Aldo
I never tanked in a PT, ever, and never will.

and no one cares....

[Shuugo]

Re: haha

Originally posted by Vittra
LOL, thanks shuugo. Can stacking souleater + berzerk + last resort save a WHM from benediction?

Yes, I've managed to pull the hate from a whm's full benediction (where almost everyone was dead). It happened in the crawlers nest with a crazy Exoray. First everyone provoked (including me), but no avail. The whm knew he'd die if he ran and die if he didn't, so he stayed put; a wise decision. At this point, I weapon bashed, but that didn't peel it off. I had already done souleater + berserk earlier in battle, so I did last resort which made it come after me. @_@ of course I canceled last resort right away.

Earlier in battle I had drained its strength and did two drains I believe, which also created a decent amount of hate. After the war had a good footing on the Exoray's enmity, I pulled off a souleater + berzerk. Soon after, the Exoray started doing that disgusting Dark Spore area attack repeatedly. While the war was trying to keep it facing the wall, a fuidama viper had been done so the Exoray was flying everywhere spewing dark spore area attack. That's when the whm used benediction, and the previously mentioned steps were taken to peel it off. ^_^;

I just need to get the Lich's drop for genkai 1 now... Arg, is there a good place to hunt them? Right now, my party is timing the hell hound spawns and killing Liches in the middle of killing hounds. Not safe at all.

[Klumps]

You think you have it bad...I play a monk, with a measly 131 defense unbuffed. I was pulling, and pretty much the only way a monk can pull is with provoke, so anyway...the warrior in the group (didn't have a pld) was using berserk while I tanked, rather than vice versa.

I'll be the first to admit that I suck at tanking. My gear choices are based on upping damage output, rather than lowering damage intake. My defense could probably be a good 10-15 points higher if I was going for tanking, but...I didn't pick monk to tank, heh.

[Avenger02]

Sadly at times when I have my War Sub for DK I would provoke at times just to keep my party alive... the sad part is that I would be in a party with 1 main tank and 2 other Wars, (and me and a white mage and some damage dealer) And then when the tank goes to red, I just happen to provoke at the right time.... But whats worse is I have to Spam VOKE like 5 times before one of the other wars realizes, they can provoke as well...

This is something that reoccurs in party more times that you would believe....

[Vittra]

Yeah, last night I leveled twice in Kazham to 32 and was tanking yet again, for some reason I feel horribly uncomfortable whenever another tank lets the monster run everywhere like a chicken with it's head cut off, so I insisted . As long as the whm's keep you healed everything is good.

All this time I still haven't had a chance to really use Souleater, everytime I've tried it the tanks never keep hate on them and just assume souleater is a defense buff so they don't bother provoking LOL.

haha anyway, i'm pretty satisfied

[Aaramis]

Agreed, 1-30 a DRK can tank if need be. Just cancel that Last Resort and/or Berserk, obviously. And you might even want to take off the -evasion gear you might have :p

If a WAR or PLD can't handle aggro, and the mob is running around "like a chicken with it's head cut off", as mentioned above, it really makes life difficult for everyone in the group. The WHM and/or BLM flinches every 3 seconds as the monster tries to eat him; the THF can't get a sneak attack off to save their life with the monster running around; renkais will be moot if you're "unable to see target"; and if the creature has a high-damaging special ability, you never know who's going to eat it.

A controlled combat situation where the creature is firmly planted on one person makes life so much easier, and a good melee player, be it DRK, SAM, or even DRG, can fulfill that role for the tank if the WAR or PLD are out to lunch, and do fine until 30ish.
After 30 though, I'd leave the tanking to the real tanks.

[supertle]

i'm a lvl30 dark and the last time i came close to tankin was at level 15ish and there was only 1 other war and he wasn't so good at it. I would never tank for a party. I announce i'm a backup provoker if whm is aggro. If i must tank, i just wont and leave the pt. It's a bad pt if a DRK has to tank. You want to have an efficient pt and get mad xp. DRK tanking meaning he's no longer a damage dealer and will waste the whm's mp. If you say your DRK has the same defense as a war, you're buying the wrong equipment. I focus more on attack, str, dex, agi then def. We may have similar stats to a war up to about lvl30, but factor in the equipment.

It's just really stupid to tank using DRK at any level. It gives others the idea that we can tank and then see your weakened dmg and think oh, DRK isn't so powerful. We don't need them when they're at a later lvl and pick other classes over us. Represent your class well please so others won't have a problem getting into a party. I always wear the best equip for my lvl, if i can't afford it, i won't lvl and do other stuff instead. Eat mithrakabob please also. It's like +5str and 20% attack increase.

Already by lvl30, i am enjoying DRK so much b/c it is such an awesome damage dealer. I'm always getting hate so much just from hitting and not provoking. I even have a macro for when I use Last resort announcing "Please be ready to heal me, hate coming". I even have another macro, "Last Resort + SoulEater = mad hate, please be ready to heal me." I was even invited into one party after their BLM had left. They later then were saying how much more damage i was doing compare to the BLM. I guess that was probably just one bad blm casting wrong spells. Up to level 30 so far, I think i'm better then all other melees except ranger out there. Thief and their sneak attack gives mega damage in their one attack but in their regular swing, it sucks.

[Vittra]

Honestly I think that's pretty arrogant that you won't even use the versatility that being a Dark Knight gives. How were you able to find parties since you were so closeminded about joining them? Between 15-30 our defense is literally on a parallel with Warriors, if not, you can take the extra -minus 10 defense a warrior has on you. In groups I always compare defense to the Warriors to designate who tanks, if mine is a exceptionally higher (usually is since they never have up to date equipment) then I will be the tank AND our group will get XP since that's what we're after. Telling me I'm not representing our class is actually insulting, it sounds like I can actually be far more useful than you to accomodate different TYPES of parties. By different types I mean parties that don't have a solid melee formation and NEED a leadership role in the tanking position...If you're good at it, then you will help your group immensily, you have 5 other people to worry about including your own life if the tank cannot do his role properly or in most cases, there simply isn't one.

Your post screams "me me me me me" as you think levels 1-30 really matter in terms of role. I hope you enjoyed playing so limited as being the wimpy melee afraid to take damage. I am not a tank, but being the next best thing is what you need to be successful. Being able to CHANGE your role to fit a situation is more valuable than your "I'm doing this or I'll go LFP for 2 hours, take it or leave it *wahh*".

Thank you

EDIT: I forgot to mention about factoring in the equipment, that is a good point