Dark's role in a party...Why haven't I been able to experience this?

[Avenger02]

I agree, and what I was surprised was that I could technically still tank... But what I hate are the lazy warrior vokers out there... Its your job! When you see me at halfway yellow red... Voke Dammit...

ok I will be quiet now...

[Vittra]

hehe, exactly Avenger

i think it's time we stand our ground and teach them since we're going over the 30 hill.

[supertle]

My point was not to be arrogant, but to say it is a BAD party if a DRK is the tank with no other one tanking. I'll always provoke when needed. A war and drk tanking would work. But a DRK and say a DRG tanking, i would not join such a party. If you are tanking (the main tanker), you cannot use abilities such as Last Resort+Souleater. Then what is the purpose of having you for? You take more dmg,waste mp, and weaker attack. If a war is wearing lizard jerksin by lvl30, i would kick him out of the party or petition the leader to kick him. Brass armor is only about 3k at lvl27.

I have never been LFG for a long time. Sometimes it's WORTH the extra wait to get into a good pt rather then join a pickup party. I rather be getting 3k/hr xp and not worry about dying then joining a whacked up pt and getting 1k/hr exp. I'm not scare to take damage, as if u play DRK probably, you are going to take DMG. But my arguement ends here, if you think you can tank up to lvl30, great. DRK is flexible. You can tank, but I won't.

Vittra, DRK32/war13 from what your profile says is what I mean not truly maximizing your job's ability. I'm sure you lvl up your war by now right. There's a lot of horrible players out there, not saying you. I have seen War30/MNK1 the other day and played with him. Yeah you right about one thing, we have to play with others and accommodate their shortcomings. I'm sure other classes have to accommedate players playing DRK w/out a clue also.

[Vittra]

Okay I understand what you were saying now, sorry for going off on you. Yeah, if parties cause me to tank then they aren't totaly efficient as they should be, thinking between lvl 1-30 are a lot of new players which either don't see how valuable and better a solid group can be, or they just take what they can get to level ASAP, which I do sometimes.

And yea, my Warrior should be lvl 15 at least by now, given I wouldn't have been able to use berzerk until I hit 30, and I went from 30-32 in 1 night (haven't left kazham in 3 days, lol). I'll be farming and leveling that job to supply Drk for the next couple levels for sure.

Again I apologize. *Good* groups are hard to come by some of the time, so if the problem comes up without a tank then they look to the next in line.

[Avenger02]

*break silence* Sorry I just have some more to say...

Supertie I agree that people who do not upgrade should be kicked because the put the whole party at risk...

Also I dunno about you guys on the other servers but for me it is often hard for me to get a good party... its sorta like I get a party of not so good players and end up being the General... (which I don't mind except when they don't listen to me grr...) And then theres the flipside of getting a party and can't do crap with it (Can you say Khazam!? aka the worlds most overcamped area)

But now I am gonna sub theif so hopefully people who pick me up will not use me as a tank.... If I have to get hate that bad, I will just use last resort and or soul eater once I get it Otherwise, call me cruel if you have to, but I will let the foolish ones die by their own actions while I escape to safety...

[albert lee]

i sub war, but if the pt expects me to tank, i would leave the pt. drk's can take dmg. but it shows how crappy the pt would be if they expect you to tank. having war as a sub is not just usefull for the berserk, but for the provoke also. provoke is used in fuidama so the thief can set the hate on the tank. to do this, usually the pt will have a tank and a thief. they look for classes that can set the hate long enough so that the theif can fuidama off the tank. to do this, the drk provokes when the monster comes in, everyone gets into positon, theif fuidamas, then the tank provokes to set the hate for along time. soul eater and last resort are not a reliable way to keep hate for a short time, the timer on both of them are too long souleater 6min, last resort 5min. its not short enough for every battle. sure it will work for a bit, but one nuke from the blm will send the monster towards the blm in an instant. esp since you probably turned the skills off. soul eater is a good hate instigator, but it doesnt last long.

[Slant]

I dunno what servers u guys are on, but on Fairy melees dont leave partys because the PT sucks, melees just want a group. They might bitch, whine, and send hate tells to eachother, but they put up with 1k exp per hour because it beats sitting in Jeuno with a flag on.

I cant see many pieces of equipment that let you sacrifice def/hp/eva for damage pre50. So far i remember that lvl 5 GS (you should be done using this when your in a group), Cruel Scythe(like you can find one of these in the AH, pfft -.-), Bone Earrings, and Beetle earrings. Just take off your earrings and use some crab food and u should be ready to tank.

I was getting ~3500 exp an hour at 39 as the main tank for a group killing worker crawlers, and by my standards that was a good group ^_^.

[albert lee]

well, here on rag, it seems as tho there are more mages than melee's. and the least amount of tanks, and brds. i pass on crappy teams because maybe 5min later a group will pick me up. if they don't o well, better than loosing exp with a crappy team that didnt get you no where.

[Satyricon]

Wanna hear how good we tank? I was in a group just today tanking soldier crawlers along with 2 sams and a dragoon. It worked our VERY well, hell... I was SUPRISED it even worked. The night before today... two dark knights, two black mages, whm and rdm. Me and the other drk juggled aggro and it WORKED. Now I am sure in the later levels we just can't afford to tank, but I am still doing it with soldier crawlers. Just don't lay on the beserk+last resort+souleater and you are good to go. Sure a PLD or WAR will outtank us any day, but with competent players, you can tank.

It's been done!

[Weezingpipes]

I've seen DRK tank and parties and it works fine to 50 honestly. They just can't really use Berserk/Soul Eater/Last Resort, and hold agro with spells..basically its like a Paladin who does better damage. Armor is the same for DRK/PLD/WAR, and if you have a WAR sub you gain the same DEF bonus a warrior would for the same level with the same equipment, so yea, it works. I've been in a few parties where we couldn't find a WAR or PLD to tank (yes it does happen) and had the DRK tank. This is of course equipment dependant, but basically til 50 a DRK can tank as well as a warrior (better really since hate gain is a lot easier). Compare the DEF of the 2 jobs if you don't believe it. Of course many are thinking "but then what is the point if I can't optimize the damage?". Well, exp gain. In the real world, most people don't always have parties with PLD/BRD/RDM/WHM/BLM/you. Hell I'm a DRG, easily tons lower DEF than a DRK, and I did a party at 42 with DRG/THF/WHM/RDM/BLM and still made around 2900 exp an hour. If a DRG can tank, you can too!

Of course, the above isn't "ideal", but be realistic and consider the above. Would you rather get 2500-3000 exp an hour and have to be tank because you can't find a PLD, or just be stubborn sitting in Jeuno for 6 hours with the other 100 DRK who are also LFP and not taking advantage of their superiour DEF equipment advantage over many jobs ^^

[Socrates]

i guess the players that picked elvaan can tank hellavu lot better than us hume/mithra/tarus. :spin:

if only drain has lower recast time... :sweat:

[albert lee]

yes a drk can tank, but it is not in the best interest for a drk to tank. the diff between a drk, and the 3 diff tanks are, DRKs TAKE MORE DMG. yes if we sub war, we have the same def as most tanks do. yet they have diff abilities that make it so that they take less dmg. thus being more mp effecient by taking less damage so the mage's can save their mp. dark's can be a viable main tank at 20-25, because we get the war's def bonus. the reason why we should stop at 25 is that a war has the defender ability. with this, wars would take less damage. pld's on the other hand get 2 def bonuses and get the sentinal ability at 30. so when these to classes are tanking, they would take 40-60dmg, while drk's would be taking 60-80 dmg. that is not good, and at higher lvl's that is very scarey when a drk has to be the main tank. there is always a chance that they can be one shotted if they turn on souleater/lastresort to keep the hate (not necessarily used together) sure we can take a couple hits, but it is not good to do so when many other's can take hits better than we do.

edit:
most teams that don't have a viable tank are pickup parties that most of the time, have no clue wtf they are doing. unless there is a summoner in the party ^^. fyi, when i'm in jueno, i barely have any competition for my spot. i seriously have maybe 1 drk competition for a spot in a pt, and that is a taru drk/whm. and i would never sit in jeuno for 6hrs for a pt. id give up after the first 30min to 1hr.

[prellius]

im a galka drk/war, and i was the main tank for about 95% of my groups until lvl 30. i always had more HP by far then other melees in the grp and my gear was up to date. i also always pulled for the group (i actually like pulling, especially with the range of spells versus provoke). on many occasions healers have said they thought i was a paladin because my damage absorbtion was just as good as them.

now that ive gotten above 30 and aquired soul eater, i try to have a designated tank so i can focus more on damage, because ive noticed stuff really starts to hit hard when you get out of the illusion that is yhoator jungle