How much is enough?

[Silent Howler]

This is sort of like a spin-off of a thread posted in the Dragoon forum, but about me and my Blu/Nin. Today I took the time to do a little research and see what equipment I should try and get. Some things caught me eye; like Empress Hairpin, Martial Slacks, Winged Boots, Nomad's Mantle, Genin Earrings...

Now, I'm a mithra, and taking a second look those items, I would be getting extreme overkill in Dexterity, Agility, and Evasion. Normally I don't boost my naturally high Dexterity to the limit and keep a Courage Ring on to boost my strength, but the other way I could go about it would be to take advantage of my high stats and push them even further.

Considering the fact that, for now, I am planning on using /Nin and will likely be the one tanking, would it be good to buff up my stats with equipment like what I mentioned above or should I draw the line somewhere and add a little Strength?

[Icemage]

Re: How much is enough?

Strength, Strength, Strength. It affects the majority of your physical attack spells. Prioritize Strength over every other stat unless you're tanking, and maybe not even then.


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How much is enough?

... but about me and my Blu/Nin.

[...]

Considering the fact that, for now, I am planning on using /Nin and will likely be the one tanking, would it be good to buff up my stats with equipment like what I mentioned above or should I draw the line somewhere and add a little Strength?

How do you plan to tank on /NIN? >_>?

[hongman]

Re: How much is enough?

Shadows down -> Headbutt -> Recast?

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How much is enough?

You can't sustain spell based damage to tank full time based on damage alone, even with juice.

I tank in my BLU's 3/3 party, and I need that Provoke to keep monsters away from the RNG, even though I do more damage overall, since RNG is practically all about spike damage.

If you want to tank on BLU, /NIN is not the way to go.

[hongman]

Re: How much is enough?

Why did I think he was talking about tanking through solo? >.>

[Kafeen]

Re: How much is enough?

You can't sustain spell based damage to tank full time based on damage alone, even with juice.

I tank in my BLU's 3/3 party, and I need that Provoke to keep monsters away from the RNG, even though I do more damage overall, since RNG is practically all about spike damage.

If you want to tank on BLU, /NIN is not the way to go.

You don't need /WAR for provoke to tank. My HNM shell often used NIN/DRK, NIN/RDM, PLD/DRK or RDM/NIN to tank. All hold hate well.

BLU/NIN has plenty of high damage and status effect spells that can be used to keep hate, along with using elemental and enfeebling ninjitsu techniques to get and hold hate.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How much is enough?

You don't need /WAR for provoke to tank. My HNM shell often used NIN/DRK, NIN/RDM, PLD/DRK or RDM/NIN to tank. All hold hate well.

BLU/NIN has plenty of high damage and status effect spells that can be used to keep hate, along with using elemental and enfeebling ninjitsu techniques to get and hold hate.

OK, but OP lists his BLU as Lv.25, and his high enmity status effect spell list is: Sheep Song, Soporific, and Sandspin ... ^_^; (Unless you consider damage to be a status effect; in that case, Bludgeon is his best enmity tool.)

[Armando]

Re: How much is enough?

NIN/DRK, NIN/RDM, RDM/NIN, DRK/NIN, PLD/RDM, and PLD/DRK have one thing in common: Inexpensive and quick casting Bind, Blind, and Sleep. Something BLU lacks.

I think Itazura's point isn't that BLU/NIN can't hold hate, but rather that the MP it costs to produce the damage to hold hate is too high. I haven't personally tried it or seen it in action but I could easily imagine how it could be an issue.

That aside, HNM is a very particular case; when making sweeping statements about JOB/SUB being able to tank or not, the statements usually refer to all levels and not just 75. It's a little bit irrelevant to bring up job combinations that aren't going to be used in the first 50 levels as proof that Provoke isn't needed.

I'd like to reiterate Taskmage's point though. STR, STR, STR should be your primary base stat. Obviously, Accuracy as well. The raw Defense from Cocoon should be enough in that department. Don't waste equipment slots on VIT because you're going to be needing damage output most of all.

If I had to guess at the approach, I'd say only use your most MP-efficient damaging spells, spamming Headbutt and only using something else for damage when needed. That'd probably give the best combination of damage done, damage reduced (via stun time) and MP spent.

Also, I can't stress this enough. Feather Storm is a marvelous spell at low levels, often performing better than Bludgeon, and is the most efficient way to gauge the enemy's toughness as well.

[Icemage]

Re: How much is enough?

My BLU is 1 level lower than the OP's, and I tank as BLU/WAR, so here's some thoughts:

(1) BLU/NIN can not hold hate against any 2 handed weapon user these days without Provoke at level 25 no matter how much Enmity you stack. CAN NOT. Even with Bludgeon/Feather Storm unless you're spamming. Samurai, Dragoon, and Great Axe Warriors will all steal hate from you with ease once they trigger any WS.

(2) There's precious little gear that adds STR at that level. The most important one, though, is Spike Necklace. Don't forget about it, as it adds +3 STR (actually it's the best BLU necklace for many, many levels).

(3) Don't overindulge in DEF gears if you're tanking on BLU. Coccoon fixes nearly all Defense problems, and a few extra points here or there are not going to cause you to take any less damage by comparison.

(4) When tanking, DO invest in Enmity. Breath Mantle is a nice item, as are Cache-Nez and Dash Sash (event item).


Icemage

[Silent Howler]

Re: How much is enough?

Shadows down -> Headbutt -> Recast?

Exactly what I had in mind.

If you want to tank on BLU, /NIN is not the way to go.

I didn't say I wanted to tank, just that I probably would end up tanking. And that will still hold true unless there happens to be a different job in the party that can hold hate better.

If I had to guess at the approach, I'd say only use your most MP-efficient damaging spells, spamming Headbutt and only using something else for damage when needed. That'd probably give the best combination of damage done, damage reduced (via stun time) and MP spent.

Typically, the only damaging spells I use during a fight are Bludgeon and Headbutt, besides Sprout Smack and Wild Oats. Bludgeon is very cost-efficient damage wise, and I rarely have any trouble with it's accuracy. I honestly haven't used Feather Storm much, but I'll try it out and see how well that works.

[Armando]

Re: How much is enough?

You should use Feather Storm at least once per fight because it gives you an accurate idea of the difficulty of the mob. As a ranged attack, its damage hardly varies (assuming you're casting from the same spot each time, of course; which is easy since I believe its sweet spot is point-blank anyways.) Because of that, variances in mob level (which gimp your Attack/Defense ratio) will show up very clearly in its damage. You can compare this Feather Storm's damage to the damage it did on the last mob to see if this one will be easier, the same, or tougher.

Also, it's a very solid and MP-efficient spell, costing 12 MP vs Bludgeon's 16 and it rips apart things that fly. So you won't lose much in using it for the purpose of sizing up the mob.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: How much is enough?

Hmm. If you don't care to tank at mid Lv.20's, I'd go with /RNG for accuracy or /WHM for versatility. There's no amazing sword for Dual Wield until Lv.30 anyway.

Lately, tanks seem to be lacking at all level ranges, so you may be able to progress faster if you tank on BLU/WAR and form party around that.

[Silent Howler]

Re: How much is enough?

You should use Feather Storm at least once per fight because it gives you an accurate idea of the difficulty of the mob. As a ranged attack, its damage hardly varies (assuming you're casting from the same spot each time, of course; which is easy since I believe its sweet spot is point-blank anyways.) Because of that, variances in mob level (which gimp your Attack/Defense ratio) will show up very clearly in its damage. You can compare this Feather Storm's damage to the damage it did on the last mob to see if this one will be easier, the same, or tougher.

Also, it's a very solid and MP-efficient spell, costing 12 MP vs Bludgeon's 16 and it rips apart things that fly. So you won't lose much in using it for the purpose of sizing up the mob.

I justed looked up Feather Storm and saw another thing that makes it look more favorable over Bludgeon, and that's that it is modified by Agility. If I buff up Agility with the stuff I mentioned before, I can see it being very effective. Especially in contrast to Bludgeon, which is modified by Charisma, mithra's naturally low stat.

Might have to make switch in my spell selection.

Lately, tanks seem to be lacking at all level ranges, so you may be able to progress faster if you tank on BLU/WAR and form party around that.

Then why is every Blu I see in Kazham Blu/Nin?
------------------------------------------

Strength, Strength, Strength. It affects the majority of your physical attack spells. Prioritize Strength over every other stat unless you're tanking, and maybe not even then.


Icemage

Actually, at my level I don't see much reason to do this. Like I said, the damage spells I use the most often are Bludgeon, Headbutt, Sprout Smack, and Wild Oats (and probably Feather Storm now). None of those spells are modified by Strength. The only spell that Strength has much of an impact on is Battle Dance. I do use that spell occationally, but it's not enough to make me prioritize Strength. At higher levels Strength is probably more important, but at this point, it doesn't have a big enough impact.

[Armando]

Re: How much is enough?

Don't use AGI for feather storm, use STR. Ranged Attacks need half as much STR as melee attacks to increase their DMG by 1, which means that usually 2 STR, sometimes 3, will be enough to increase your DMG by 1. That's a lot better than the 30% AGI mod.

Actually, at my level I don't see much reason to do this. Like I said, the damage spells I use the most often are Bludgeon, Headbutt, Sprout Smack, and Wild Oats (and probably Feather Storm now). None of those spells are modified by Strength. The only spell that Strength has much of an impact on is Battle Dance. I do use that spell occationally, but it's not enough to make me prioritize Strength. At higher levels Strength is probably more important, but at this point, it doesn't have a big enough impact.

STR affects all physical damage. Spells are no exception. The stat mods just provide an additional boost. But if it's going to take 4 of another stat to raise your DMG by 1, why not just equip 4 STR instead?