few resist questions

[l33t_c0w]

What do we know about what causes resists? And what's the popular theories right now? (especially on the monster's end)

Does the mob's int or the mob's mind have a relation to their resists to nukes? resists to elemental enfeebles? ooh, and what about the black normal enfeebs?

Last question - which is better for resists (not damage overall or whatever): +10 elemental skill, or the appropriate NQ elemental staff? (does anyone even know about the effects of HQs on resists?)

[TheMidg]

Elemental skill is the most important factor when considering resists. Damage is based on your INT and the enemies INT, and from what I've seen 1 INT = 1 DMG, so it' always a good idea to pump that out, don't forget it will become more than 1 DMG with magic attack bonuses! And it's a very good idea to use the elemental stave according to the elemental, you don't wanna give up that +10% dmg. Hope I helped.

[l33t_c0w]

thanks for the reply. I really do appreciate people trying to answer my questions ^_^

I just want to know what I can do to absolutely minimize chances of resists. does casting shock (lower mob's mind) actually do anything for your chances of resists? it's a popular theory that they do on alla, but it sounds a lot like the kind of misconception you could get connecting mind with a whm's mdef up bonuses.

And, thinking way ahead, to get resists *as low as possible* on gods and the like, if i'm having bad problems, would a correct elemental staff help more, or would the +10 skill from the ice staff help more?

I'm also curious about whether a mob's mind or int is the determining factor in defencing against black (not elemental) enfeebles.

In any case, thanks for the helpful reply.

[Tartaros]

Re: few resist questions

Originally posted by l33t_c0w
What do we know about what causes resists? And what's the popular theories right now? (especially on the monster's end)

Does the mob's int or the mob's mind have a relation to their resists to nukes? resists to elemental enfeebles? ooh, and what about the black normal enfeebs?

boosting MND will increase your spell accuracy, (all spells)
it will help land on the mob, it wont necessarily boost its effects... high MND + paralyze wont have the mob being paralyze a whole lot. it will just help you succesfully paralyze a mob.

lowering a monster's MND, will lower his resistance to spells.

boost your INT for more dmg
lower monster's INT for his magic defense to get lower

Originally posted by l33t_c0w
Last question - which is better for resists (not damage overall or whatever): +10 elemental skill, or the appropriate NQ elemental staff? (does anyone even know about the effects of HQs on resists?) [/B]

Elemental Magic skill will give you greatest magic accuracy boost.
MND will give you very little.

Magic Attack bonus will give you greatest magic damage boost.
INT will give you very little.

and... you talking about monster's resist? or yours?
majority of people equip the complimentary stave with the spell's element of which they wish to cast...

Stun + Lightning Staff etc...
NQ or HQ, no difference.. if there were any hiddenstats beyond dmg boost.. HQ will slightly give bettter stats over NQ. nothing new.

[Macht]

Originally posted by l33t_c0w
but it sounds a lot like the kind of misconception you could get connecting mind with a whm's mdef up bonuses.

I don't think the misconception is related to the fact that WHM get mdef up and is suppose to rely on MND more. I think it's more due to the general theory of what INT and MND typically do in other games.

2 MUDs I played and 3 RPGs all related MND as Defensive and INT as Offensive.

So that ment casting spells in nature of curing, debuffing, and enhancing, were improved with MND. Also with the typical idea MND control resistance and defense to offensive spells.

So in relation to this INT was seen as effecting DoT spells, DoT debuffs (Elemental Debuffs), and all attack spells (Divine, or Element related). So with this it was natural that INT controlled the spells attack and odds of overcoming a resist.

In other words INT and MND the general idea with many other RPGs is that they have a STR and VIT relationship. So far which is true if it is your INT vs. monsters INT or your INT vs. monsters MND I haven't seen anything stating either to be true in this game.

Since Apple is suppose to be the leading with this knowledge I suppose I should look up his info and see if I agree with his testing method and if it proves enough that your INT is indeed tested against monster's INT.

[Alauna]

When casting the BLM Elem. Debuffs (Burn, Frost, Choke, Rasp, Shock, Drown) the +10 Elem. Magic from the Ice Staff will benifit you more that +10%~ from the appriate staff. This is soley due to the fact that the Elm. Enf. are Elemental Magic and the +10 skill will mean less resists, as compared to the "+acc~" of the staff.

When nuking, the +10 Skill gets overshadowed by the +10%~ Boost to the Spell (as a whole) from the staff.

[Macht]

Well just looked throught the results (sites returned 4 pages filled of threads where Apple Pie talks about INT and MND). In every thread he only stated that your INT is checked against monster's INT and that your MND is checked against monster's MND.

The only thing is he never provided solid evidence for this, instead provided statements that were only partly confirming that MND effects stats like Paralyze and Slow (Debuffing stats) and that INT effected stats like Burn, Choke, Dia (Elemental DoT Debuffing stats).

So as far all I could find Apple Pie seemed to contridict himself, and none of the threads I looked at provided solid enough repeatable proof.

[Icemage]

Monster INT : The higher this is compared vs. your INT, the more likely you'll see a resisted black magic spell. There is a diminishing returns in effect here, however, once you're significantly above the monster's INT, your resist rate stops improving by any appreciable margin from further INT+ (you need to boost +Elemental/Enfeeble or use other tricks to improve from that point).

Monster MND: The higher this is compared vs. your MNT, the more likely you'll see a resisted white magic spell. As with INT, there is similar diminishing returns. For black mages, this is not a priority, since it's rare to see BLMs casting Silence, Slow, Paralyze, or Banish.

Ice staff vs. NQ staff vs. HQ staff:
+10 Elemental skill on Ice Staff is preferable to nothing (obviously), and is vastly superior to using a +INT wand. Ice staff is also very bad for casting Wind-based spells like Silence and Aero.

NQ staff of matching element provides +10% damage boost, and improves spell accuracy for that element.

HQ staff of matching element provides +15% damage boost, and greatly improves spell accuracy for that element.

All of the above are borne out by personal experience.


Icemage

[l33t_c0w]

recap

Things I'm "sure" of:
Mob's int vs. caster's int has effect determining damage.
Mob's mnd vs. caster's mnd has effect for potency and chances of resists on white debuffs.
NQ staff = +10% damage, HQ = +15%
Elemental staves cooresponding to the right element increase accuracy.
Elemental skill helps resists / Matk helps damage

Speculation that makes sense:
Icemage's idea of int affecting resists w/diminishing returns. This would pan out nicely with all the high level testers not seeing much of a difference in resists but lower levels finding a larger difference. Though, I haven't seen a whole lot of lower levels with good tests. (any that I can think of actually)

I'm going to play under the assumption that the victim's mind does not affect its chances of a resist on a nuke. Everyone who seems to know what they're talking about says int might, and says nothing about mind.

Questions nobody's answered yet:
Would a cooresponding staff or +10 Elemental Skill make for lower resists? (discard scenario of air spell w/ice staff please) (also, ignore overall effectiveness. i want to know about resists )

Does monster mind help it resist black enfeebles?

Think elemental staves affect the dot damage from elemental enfeebs? and possibly potency of the stat reduction?

[Rones]

Re: Re: few resist questions

Originally posted by Tartaros
boosting MND will increase your spell accuracy, (all spells)
it will help land on the mob, it wont necessarily boost its effects... high MND + paralyze wont have the mob being paralyze a whole lot. it will just help you succesfully paralyze a mob.

According to Applepie's old posts that isn't correct. He said the effectiveness of paralyze and slow (in addition to their resist rates) depended on your mnd vs mobs mnd. He had data for it from testing on lvl 1 mandys in sarutbua as test cases, but it was on Japanese web sites and fairly difficult for us to understand. It did show a signifigant increase in paralyze occurences as the caster's mnd surpassed mob's mnd.

I have never heard someone claim mnd increases the accuracy of blm nukes or any blm spell before. If this were true I would expect to see some blm's wearing +mnd gear, but I have never witnessed that. Best bet to improve blm resist rate is increasing elemental skill.

[Tartaros]

^

exactly... reread what i wrote.

[Rones]

Uhm, I did several times because it seemed so odd like this statment:

boosting MND will increase your spell accuracy, (all spells)

All spells means blm nukes and enfeebles which I have never seen to be true.

lowering a monster's MND, will lower his resistance to spells.

Again, this doesn't agree with common beliefs that mnd is for whm enfeebles/banishs and int is for blm nuke/enfeebles.

I have never heard or experienced mnd having any effect on blm spells like your post is claiming. Also, your post is stating the effectiveness of whm enfeeble is not affected by mnd, yet Applepie's data says the exact opposite.

I don't see how any of that is agreeing with what you posted.

[Macht]

First off, Damn Tartaros what the hell is with that sig.? There are people on here that look at this site during their break times, you trying to get them in trouble with that?

Second I have to agree with Rones. So far when reading Applepies posts in terms of resists there was nothing of repeatable testing examples to back what he states. The only repeatable test was the statement on Paralyze being dependant on MND for it to be more effective.

With that being the case then Paralyze is spitting right into the logic of MND affecting spell accuracy only and doesn't deal with effectiveness. There was even one post were I think Applepie even backed that the spell Shock (-MND) was reducing black magic spell resists, that again is conflicting on the logic of INT vs INT and MND vs MND. I'll have to find and re-read that one just to be more certain, but I'm fairly sure that's what I had read.

I haven't really done much in testing my spells resists when I played BLM to 30, I'll probably have to get it out again and see. I've collected enough +MND items and +INT items to get a good +10 or more of each seperatly to get a view of which is doing what.

[Tartaros]

it will help land on the mob, it wont necessarily boost its effects... high MND + paralyze wont have the mob being paralyze a whole lot. it will just help you succesfully paralyze a mob.

replace paralyze with some other spell, i used the wrong spell as an example...

i was speaking solely on accuracy, a spells sucess rate of landing on a target instead of being Resisted...

[Icemage]

Originally posted by Tartaros
replace paralyze with some other spell, i used the wrong spell as an example...

i was speaking solely on accuracy, a spells sucess rate of landing on a target instead of being Resisted...

Paralyze proc rate is indeed affected by MND, as is its accuracy, which is no surprise since it is WHITE MAGIC (which you evidently have zero experience with, given your clueless comments in this thread).

And if paralyze WASN'T the spell you wanted to use, what was? Black magic nukes like Thunder IV? If that's the case, then you're wrong twice.


Icemage