sleepga, BCNM40?

[neighbortaru]

I read something over on KI that said sleepga is never resisted by the white mandys in BCNM40. Anyone know if this is true? If so, it raises the possiblity of using a BLM as a gimp BRD in this BC. Sure, it'll probably make it more difficult, but when you absolutely can't find a BRD...

[Coinspinner]

The problem isn't being resisted, but being interupted.

My first BCNM40 I was supposed to tag team sleepga with another BLM. This other BLM failed to mention he didn't have Sleepga til we were inside the arena. I died almost instantly after the mandies woke for the first time. Sleepga has a long cast time. ><;

[neighbortaru]

agreed, interrupts would be a problem. The way the KI poster laided out the strat (btw, post is here) is the BLM runs in, ES+sleepga on the black mandy. This would sleep all of them but the black. Melees and DD's rush the black one. When the white ones wake (btw a LS mate said sleepga is only 6sec of sleep, is this true?), start your cast as you see them running to you. By the time they reach you, your spell should have gone off and got them.

Anyway, you can read the post for yourself. I am thinking the reason why his strat works so well is because of the massive damage he has with 2 RNG's in the party. In a typical BCNM40 setup, with the BLM replacing the BRD, this probably won't work so well.

[Thegod]

you should try having the rng bomb the mandys with sleep bolts

and blm/nin dual wielding ermite's wands will help tremendously with resist.

this combo only works in BCNMs where you can aspir bomb the mob.s, due to really low mp w/o mage sub.

[AtraposBLM]

I've done more BC40's than I could possibly count. My experience is limited to Balga's Dias (7 white mandragora, 1 black).


You cannot win this without a bard. Period. I can confirm that sleepga lands 100% with capped enfeebling (or near enough to 100% as to make no difference) at lv40. However, there are numerous reasons why BLM cannot replace bard as main sleeper.

1) BLM get's spell casting interrupted. 7 mandies on 1 blm. Not only is the BLM dead...fast...He'll never get the sleep off.

2) BLM get's spell casting interrupted.

3) BLM gets spell casting interrupted.

4) If a BLM is OOM, you're shit out of luck. BRD doesn't need MP to sleep.


Does this mean sleepga is useless is BC40? Not quite. However, you can use sleepga in addition to horde lullaby for ridiculous results. That is to say:
Bard lullabies all the mandies. They wake up, hit the bard. Lullabies them again. Now the BLM sleepga's. This overrides Horde Lullaby - only get this, the BRD will still have hate. So you get extra sleep time...for only as much MP as sleepga costs. It's helpful, but it won't make or break your BC40 run. Unless your bard knows that you're doing it, it might even hurt your attempt (many BRD's I know have it timed so well they start singing a moment before the mandies wake - if you make them sleep longer, their timing will be completely thrown).

BC60, however, Sleepga II makes it MUCH easier for BLM to be main sleeper. Why? Well, for one thing, now BLM has access to Blink and Stoneskin - 2 major things to help land spells while getting hit. Second, you can do Blink - Stoneskin - Aquaveil, Sleepga I. Wait 20 seconds, then Sleepga II. That gives you about 1.5 minutes total sleep time - basically means a lone BLM can take care of sleeping all the mobs on his own. This is assuming you have capped enfeebling, nobody tries to sleep the mobs to help you (it actually tends to mess up your timing), and you have AF body. Oh, always remember to leave a PLD type or something last - that way you can Aspir it throughout the entire battle.

[magnius]

I did a few runs as blm in BCNM40. Defenitly better to use a brd instead of another blm though. How we did it was I ran in and elemental seal > sleepga then the brd slept them when they woke. After the initial sleep i mainly was used to heal and then the occasional nuke. We only lost the first time out of 8 times and only then because we werent exactly sure what to do. Unfortunatly nothing droped in all 8 times

[Coinspinner]

I was fairly certain up until now that Lulluby overwrote Sleepga, not the other way around.

[Macht]

Hmm, so I guess using the new blink band to give you that blink ability early still won't help then?

[Coinspinner]

Blink only stops two hits, and how many are coming at ya? Nah, not too helpful. ><;

[AtraposBLM]

Originally posted by Coinspinner
I was fairly certain up until now that Lulluby overwrote Sleepga, not the other way around.

I could've sworn that Sleepga overwrote Lullaby. I could be wrong, as I haven't BC'd in forever, and when I did BC40's, I didn't ever risk screwing with the BRD's timing by overwriting his lullaby. I only know for a fact that Sleepga II overwrites both Lullaby and Sleepga. I'm *fairly* certain that at least a few months ago, I used lullaby -> sleepga -> sleepga II on a BC60. It's fairly easy to test this, however, as you'll get a bright yellow message saying "Your sleepga had no effect on X." if it doesn't overwrite it. Meh...if it doesn't, then I was wrong, and Sleepga is utterly useless for BC40 lol.

[Rawls]

You could have a BLM as the main sleeper but it is far from ideal. I once did a BCNM40 (mandies) where the BRD took a few too many hit before being able to get Lullaby off and well... BLM was the main sleeper after that.

Somehow managed to pull off a win literally one second before we would've ran out of time.

[Xodia]

Unlucky

Ive done 6 BCNM40's in Giddeus, and lost them all thanks to noob bards. grr

[Laehn]

Lullaby is light elemental, sleep is dark elemental. Dark elemental spells always overwrite light elemental ones from my experience. Plus i think the game recognizes lullaby as sleep 1 priority, so sleep 2 or sleepga 2 will always overwrite it.

Brds are good only cuz we cant get interrupted. I always make sure i have a blm in high lvl bcnms when i go in. Lullaby is far too short compared to a blm's sleep 2 or sleepga. Its also nice that brds can sleep undead very easily. So that one BCNM for rank mission with all the skellies is cake with a brd.

[stp10w30]

Worm's Turn BCNM 40 in Waughoon Shrine is way better for BLMs. Sleepga doesn't get interupted cause you use it on worms that hopefully are far away--you can get drawn in though.

[Icemage]

Sleep/Sleepga/Foe Lullaby/Horde Lullaby are all the same tier. You cannot overwrite any of them with any other. Trying to do so merely causes the spell to fail on that target.

Using BLM as main control at Steamed Sprouts is not a good idea. As Atropos noted, Sleepga takes forever to cast, and its far too easy to get interrupted. Bards never get interrupted unless they're stunned, knocked back, or (obviously) killed, not to mention Horde Lullaby with Mary's Horn lasts longer than Sleepga does, and Horde Lullaby takes only about 3 seconds to cast.

Oh, and yes, Blink Band isn't terribly useful, other than for the +4 evasion if you're using it. Blink soaks up all of 2 hits, and you have far better things to be doing with your time than using such an item.


Icemage