Magic Burst?

[cavill]

I have decided i wanna take BLM all the way, i have tried BRD, BST and WHM, BRD is pretty cool then WHM is also good but i like BLM the most so i wanna be the best i can be at my job and my LS leader said: "If you wanna be a good BLM you gotta research the Magic Bursts" So im not completely sure what this is, can anybody direct me to a site that explains this and examples etc?
Thanks alot!

[Tsama]

There are about 9 million threads on what an MB is and how to do one, in this forum alone.

I will explain it though.

How you do a MB is you cast a spell that goes with the elemental ability the melee's are doing.

Basicly.

Carl does Tachi Enpi

Bob readies Viper Bite

Bob does Viper Bite

Tsama Cast Blizzard

Magic Burst


You have 5 seconds after the Skill Chain effect hits to cast your spell. MB's are easy to do if you pay attention to your log and you have your macro's set up to do them. 90% of the time a party will tell you what spell to cast to MB. Then some of the time they won't even know what Skill Chain to put together. Those are the times that you should know what a Mob is weak against and put together a basic one for the melee. (Just as a side note, if your melee can't come up with a skill chain. Chances are they are stupid and you should run.)

[cavill]

I have no idea what skills chain together..
Like i just randomly cast spells whenver and never get asked to cast for skill chains, but since i am lvling fast and will be getting into the 30's soon i wanna learn this stuff, i have looked at charts etc but cant read them at all!
Im killing Mandragoras in Yhaotor Jungle at the moment with random parties, using thunder. What skills would the melee need to use for us to do magic bursts?

[xcalibur2k]

Read this .

Hope that helps.

[Erasmus]

I had to teach a 30 blm in yhoator how to MB. He didnt even know how to identify a skill chain. I wanted to slap him stupid. He should be glad I was patient and walked him through it I hate it when people show no interest in learning thier job. As a blm when i was in the 40s I met a 40+ blm that couldnt burst. WTF!! Glad to see one who is taking interest Even if it is a little late ^^ Good luck.

[Tsama]

To be honest, if I ever am in a party and the blm doesn't know how to MB after oh 25 I usually leave or kick them. I don't have much patience.

Though, I will teach if asked.

Well one of the problems with knowing how to MB at low lvls is your melee can't put good chains together for a while. Especially considering that the people that get invited usually end up being whoever the hell is around and has a flag up.

[cavill]

Well in all the parties i been in, none of em mentioned anything about Magic Bursts, but today i was in a party with 3 DRK's and they told me to use Blizzard after they both us Shadow of Death, so i did and i got Magic Burst! 36 points of damage. It was my first Magic Burst i was so happy!
Then in the next party we just had 1 DRK and i casted Blizzard after his Shadow of Death and it only did 6 points of damage =(

I absolutely cannot read those charts, i have looked through it so many times.
Ok let me try putting together a combination and tell me if it will work:

Great Sword (shockwave) >> Sword (Flat Blade) >> Magic Burst with Thunder. IMPACTION!

Is that correct?

Ok let me try another with different element:

Sword (Circle Blade B) >> Dagger (Gust Slash) >> Magic Burst with Aero. DETONATION!

Was that correct? If both those are correct i think i have just understood the chart! Also, i have to use the proper elemental spell with the combinations, so i cant use Aero with Shockwave and Flat blade right? I just need to memorise the Renkeis?

[Karinya]

Both of your examples are correct, but you won't see those skillchains often in a party for several reasons.

First of all, Flat Blade is a stun WS and does low damage; few people will want to use it in a skillchain. Circle Blade is an area WS and does unimpressive damage and can draw aggro from other nearby monsters (like -ga spells). So you won't often see either of those in a skillchain unless there is no better alternative.

Second, and more importantly, those are level 1 skillchains, which are generally not as powerful and useful as the level 2 skillchains Distortion, Fragmentation, Fusion and Gravitation (in roughly that order of popularity), because they have only one resistance type and magic burst element.

Most weaponskills have one or more skillchain properties (there are a few that don't, such as Spirits Within and Energy Drain). Skill 200 or lower WS's can have any of the level 1 properties Compression, Transfixion, Reverberation, Induration, Impaction, Liquefaction, Scission and Detonation. High level WS can also have the level 2 properties Distortion, Fragmentation Fusion and Gravitation.

Combining two compatible WS will usually result in a skillchain whose property is the same as the second WS in the chain: for example, Circle Blade's Scission followed by Gust Slash's Detonation yields a Detonation skillchain. Certain combinations of level 1 properties result in a substitution where a level 2 skillchain is created instead. These are:
Transfixion followed by Scission creates Distortion
Induration followed by Reverberation creates Fragmentation
Liquefaction followed by Impaction creates Fusion
Detonation followed by Compression creates Gravitation

A common skillchain at level 33 is Double Thrust > Viper Bite. Double Thrust has the property of Transfixion and Viper Bite has the property of Scission, so this combination of WS results in a Distortion skillchain (which is why it is so popular, some common exp mobs are weak vs Distortion and thieves love finishing skillchains with sneak attack + trick attack).

Some WS have more than one property - for example, Circle Blade has Reverberation and Impaction. When a multi-property WS is involved in a skillchain, these rules apply:
1. When the second WS is performed, the game checks all possible combinations of properties of the first and second WS until a combination that produces a skillchain is found. Starting with WS 1's A property and WS 2's A property, then 1A > 2B, 1A > 2C, 1B > 2A, 1B > 2B etc.
2. Once a skillchain has been performed, any subsequent WS can only produce another skillchain using the element of the skillchain that actually happened, regardless of other properties that WS may have. This is also why a level 2 skillchain ends the chain at levels 1-64: no level 1 effect can produce a skillchain after a level 2 effect.

To give an example: Shadow of Death has the properties Reverberation and Induration.
DRK 1 uses Shadow of Death.
DRK 2 uses Shadow of Death.
At this point the game checks to see if a skillchain is possible. Rev -> Rev: nothing. Rev -> Ind: Induration skillchain. So an Induration skillchain occurs (this is where you MB'd Blizzard).
Now suppose the third DRK also uses Shadow of Death.
Because the previous Shadow of Death produced an Induration skillchain, its other property (Reverberation) is ignored and only the Induration property can produce another skillchain. So the game checks Ind -> Rev: this is the combo for Fragmentation.

Thus two Shadows of Death produce Induration, and three produce Induration followed by Fragmentation. If you get the timing right you can burst Blizzard on the Induration and then burst Thunder on the Fragmentation too. But you have to time the Blizzard just right, because performing another weaponskill will close the magic burst window (even if it doesn't produce another skillchain).

Now that you understand skillchains, magic burst is easy. Each skillchain type has one or more element of spells that can magic burst if the spell takes effect approximately 2-5 seconds after the skillchain (unless another WS is used before then, in which case the spell has to hit before the other WS to get the MB effect).
Compression: Dark spells (Drain, Aspir, Bio, Blind)
Transfixion: Light spells (Banish, Holy)
Reverberation: Water spells (Water, Drown, Poison)
Induration: Ice spells (Blizzard, Frost, Paralyze)
Impaction: Thunder spells (Thunder, Shock)
Liquefaction: Fire spells (Fire, Burn)
Scission: Earth spells (Stone, Rasp, Slow)
Detonation: Wind spells (Aero, Choke, Silence)
Distortion: Water/Ice spells
Fragmentation: Wind/Thunder spells
Fusion: Fire/Light spells
Gravitation: Earth/Dark spells

so in the above example of Shadow of Death > Shadow of Death > Shadow of Death, the first skillchain is Induration: only Ice spells will work, and the second is Fragmentation: either Wind or Thunder spells will work.

[cavill]

Originally posted by Karinya
Both of your examples are correct, but you won't see those skillchains often in a party for several reasons.

First of all, Flat Blade is a stun WS and does low damage; few people will want to use it in a skillchain. Circle Blade is an area WS and does unimpressive damage and can draw aggro from other nearby monsters (like -ga spells). So you won't often see either of those in a skillchain unless there is no better alternative.

Second, and more importantly, those are level 1 skillchains, which are generally not as powerful and useful as the level 2 skillchains Distortion, Fragmentation, Fusion and Gravitation (in roughly that order of popularity), because they have only one resistance type and magic burst element.

Most weaponskills have one or more skillchain properties (there are a few that don't, such as Spirits Within and Energy Drain). Skill 200 or lower WS's can have any of the level 1 properties Compression, Transfixion, Reverberation, Induration, Impaction, Liquefaction, Scission and Detonation. High level WS can also have the level 2 properties Distortion, Fragmentation Fusion and Gravitation.

Combining two compatible WS will usually result in a skillchain whose property is the same as the second WS in the chain: for example, Circle Blade's Scission followed by Gust Slash's Detonation yields a Detonation skillchain. Certain combinations of level 1 properties result in a substitution where a level 2 skillchain is created instead. These are:
Transfixion followed by Scission creates Distortion
Induration followed by Reverberation creates Fragmentation
Liquefaction followed by Impaction creates Fusion
Detonation followed by Compression creates Gravitation

A common skillchain at level 33 is Double Thrust > Viper Bite. Double Thrust has the property of Transfixion and Viper Bite has the property of Scission, so this combination of WS results in a Distortion skillchain (which is why it is so popular, some common exp mobs are weak vs Distortion and thieves love finishing skillchains with sneak attack + trick attack).

Some WS have more than one property - for example, Circle Blade has Reverberation and Impaction. When a multi-property WS is involved in a skillchain, these rules apply:
1. When the second WS is performed, the game checks all possible combinations of properties of the first and second WS until a combination that produces a skillchain is found. Starting with WS 1's A property and WS 2's A property, then 1A > 2B, 1A > 2C, 1B > 2A, 1B > 2B etc.
2. Once a skillchain has been performed, any subsequent WS can only produce another skillchain using the element of the skillchain that actually happened, regardless of other properties that WS may have. This is also why a level 2 skillchain ends the chain at levels 1-64: no level 1 effect can produce a skillchain after a level 2 effect.

To give an example: Shadow of Death has the properties Reverberation and Induration.
DRK 1 uses Shadow of Death.
DRK 2 uses Shadow of Death.
At this point the game checks to see if a skillchain is possible. Rev -> Rev: nothing. Rev -> Ind: Induration skillchain. So an Induration skillchain occurs (this is where you MB'd Blizzard).
Now suppose the third DRK also uses Shadow of Death.
Because the previous Shadow of Death produced an Induration skillchain, its other property (Reverberation) is ignored and only the Induration property can produce another skillchain. So the game checks Ind -> Rev: this is the combo for Fragmentation.

Thus two Shadows of Death produce Induration, and three produce Induration followed by Fragmentation. If you get the timing right you can burst Blizzard on the Induration and then burst Thunder on the Fragmentation too. But you have to time the Blizzard just right, because performing another weaponskill will close the magic burst window (even if it doesn't produce another skillchain).

Now that you understand skillchains, magic burst is easy. Each skillchain type has one or more element of spells that can magic burst if the spell takes effect approximately 2-5 seconds after the skillchain (unless another WS is used before then, in which case the spell has to hit before the other WS to get the MB effect).
Compression: Dark spells (Drain, Aspir, Bio, Blind)
Transfixion: Light spells (Banish, Holy)
Reverberation: Water spells (Water, Drown, Poison)
Induration: Ice spells (Blizzard, Frost, Paralyze)
Impaction: Thunder spells (Thunder, Shock)
Liquefaction: Fire spells (Fire, Burn)
Scission: Earth spells (Stone, Rasp, Slow)
Detonation: Wind spells (Aero, Choke, Silence)
Distortion: Water/Ice spells
Fragmentation: Wind/Thunder spells
Fusion: Fire/Light spells
Gravitation: Earth/Dark spells

so in the above example of Shadow of Death > Shadow of Death > Shadow of Death, the first skillchain is Induration: only Ice spells will work, and the second is Fragmentation: either Wind or Thunder spells will work.

I got happy because i got the examples right, then u got me even more confused lol, i understood the end bit, and wrote it down in my notepad, so if i see my party doing 1 of those i will know what spells to cast.
So even Debuffs can be a part of Magic Bursts? So if i use paralyze after Induration it will deal dmg with MB?

[cld]

print this sc chart out, it will be your best friend ^^
http://ffvault.ign.com/screenshots/?ss=161

it's really easy to read too. let's say the rng in your pt does "piercing arrow" followed by the thf's "viper bite", you look it up in that chart and see, it's a distortion renkei.
if you dont know what spells will a mb off distortion, you check the table at the bottom and you see distorion = ice and water type spells.

depending on what spell you're using (the higher lvl the spell, the longer the casttime) you will start using your spell 0-2 secs after the 2nd person has done his weaponskill, sometimes even slightly before (ancient magic is an exception since the casttime of these spells are 11+ secs)

[Narru]

Bah, don't even bother with the weapon skill charts. You (as a blm) do not really need to know that Double Thrust -> Viper Bite = Distortion or that Fast Blade -> Burning Blade -> Shield Break = Fusion... Just ask the PT what the "renkei effect" is. Most informed people will just tell you, "oh, it's Distortion", or "oh it's Fusion" That's all you need to know really. Besides, it says it in your combat log what the renkei effect is.

Just gotta wait for people to do their weapon skills (who cares what they do), and you'll see a pretty graphic signifying the effect, then land the hit 3 secs later.

Just print out a chart telling you what renkei effect corresponds with what element and MB from there. Don't bother getting confused with which weapon skill links with what if you're not really interested in it.

[Yuanlung]

Well... that's the ideal senario. In practice, not all melees know the renkei chart by heart. They memorize chains involving 1 or 2 weapon skills that they have, and that's about it.

Also melees tend to be less familiar with the elemental weakness of various things.


I found it very helpful for me, the BLM, to have the renkei chart handy when we try to put togather a renkei + burst plan. We get more options and I can join the discussion to work out something that gives us the best damage/element.


It's never a bad thing to stay informed.

[cld]

exactly... half of the time i had to tell the melees what chain they have to do / is recommended . not that often anymore, but it HAS happened even after lvl 50.

[riceburner4540]

i agree with yuanlung. lets say you were fighting beetles and had a dragoon and a paladin in the party. you could do red lotus blade > double thrust for fusion, which is good against beetles and you can MB fire on it. but, if you know that double thrust > fast blade = distortion, which is also good against beetles and you can MB blizzard on it, which is not only stronger, but also an element beetles are weak to, then distortion is the superior skillchain.

[cavill]

Originally posted by cld
print this sc chart out, it will be your best friend ^^
http://ffvault.ign.com/screenshots/?ss=161

it's really easy to read too. let's say the rng in your pt does "piercing arrow" followed by the thf's "viper bite", you look it up in that chart and see, it's a distortion renkei.
if you dont know what spells will a mb off distortion, you check the table at the bottom and you see distorion = ice and water type spells.

depending on what spell you're using (the higher lvl the spell, the longer the casttime) you will start using your spell 0-2 secs after the 2nd person has done his weaponskill, sometimes even slightly before (ancient magic is an exception since the casttime of these spells are 11+ secs)

Dont have a printer >.<

I have been using MB a fair bit now that i know how, i cast once the 2nd melee uses his ability and it casts by the time 3 seconds is up, the whm/blm also throw in an MB aswell which does about half the dmg i do =) This is making lvling alot more fun! ^.^