65+ Party Invite

[kazuri]

Just wondering; how good is "top notch gear"? Are you meaning like... Avengers, Amemit Mantle, Black Belt?

Or.... average gear that are expected from you at that current level?

[zorca]

I have a nice question, I would like to ask that if you don't know the answer don't half ass it, just don't say anything.

What a nice way to ask a question

Anyway, no single job is needed imo. It's all about the rate of getting exp. Having a dmg dealer in your PT who does 2k or so dmg per monster will definitely speed things up a lot.

Recently I've been playing bard, we have Nin, rng, thf, whm, brd (myself) in the static. Each time we couldnt get a blm exp is noticeable slower, espeically after lv50 or so.

So, hope u get the idea.

[AtraposBLM]

I forget the claws, but he had above average gear that would be expected. From memory, the items that stood out were the +4 str rings, Amemit Mantle +1, and Ochiduo's Kote (I think he used these...could be mistaking his glove choice for a friend's though). He was also Galkan....

The only thing he didn't have were spartan cesti.


To the monk who posted their raging fist damage - I've never seen a monk do more than ~500ish damage with raging fist to exp mobs, most of the time it was in the 300-400 range. In addition, who ever said that new, higher weapon skills were better than lower ones? Sidewinder remains the "best" weaponskill a ranger has in terms of damage, and look at a dragoons progression of weaponskills from penta thrust on if you really want an example of ws's just getting worse with levels.


I swear to god, I'm not trying to put down monks. All I'm saying is I was able to pull aggro every single mob with my burst without causing downtime, despite wearing -enmity gear, despite the monk being 2 levels higher on mobs that he has a bonus against and HEAVILY resist all my spells (my max damage for all spells was like -50). I wish I took screenshots of it...I knew nobody would believe me.

[Darksbane]

Sorry, a lil off topic but i'm new and was curious why Blm's don't get invites at later levels? I figured PT's would always need a dmg dealer

[Icemage]

500 damage from Dragon Kick seems low.

I've been partying a lot in Den of Rancor on Tormentors lately at level 68-69, and Dragon Kick seems to be hitting for ~600-800 consistently from the monks I've been partying with. Sometimes less, but usually in that range. DRK usually Spinning Slash for a bit more, up to 4-digit damage sometimes, with a 1K damage Light skillchain burst (usually followed by a Firaga III for additional 4-digit damage).


Icemage

[Xarndelius]

LOL, so everyones in the pissing contest. Its all good though.

You want to know who wins it all though.

Has to be the tank holding it all together.

[Crowzukin]

If anything, BLMs are even better at high level.

My favorite party thus far has been PLD RDM RDM BLM BLM BLM.
We were fighting crabs too so Aspir + Refresh = non stop nuking. God damn that was fun... unbelievable exp too.

[littlesushi]

Sorry, a lil off topic but i'm new and was curious why Blm's don't get invites at later levels? I figured PT's would always need a dmg dealer

You will get invites, don't worry >.>

[Rodin]

Originally posted by Crowzukin
If anything, BLMs are even better at high level.

My favorite party thus far has been PLD RDM RDM BLM BLM BLM.
We were fighting crabs too so Aspir + Refresh = non stop nuking. God damn that was fun... unbelievable exp too.

Similar kind of party. But it was with giants in qufim. We had War (me), Mnk, smn, rdm, whm, blm.


For some reason I don't think we even rested. We got up to chain # six, which is pretty rare in qufim, even though it was a mostly JP party, and everyone used food. (Food? In qufim? NONSENSE!!! Lol)

[Brennon]

Lemme start off by saying, that I love having BLM in party. Now I'll respond to this...

we're not needed anymore? hah! that's a laugh. if a party wants exp chain 4 or, dare i say, chain 5, they will need us.

I was just in a PT the other day (i leveled from 52@3000 to 54@10000 in just a few hours)

NIN/WAR
MNK/WAR (me)
MNK/THF
RDM/WHM
RDM/WHM
WHM/BLM

and we pulled of Chain 5# *almost) every single time, easy. We were fighting Fallen Majors/Fallen Mages in Garlaige of course ^^

and this...

He had top notch gear, fully updated sub, and the main part - he was 2 levels higher than me. I watched very closely, as I wanted to see how much monks owned. I was looking forward to a party where I didn't have to do all the damage...but I did, yet again. Perhaps it's because he subbed warrior, not thf, but I've not seen very many monks at my level seeking with /thf. Perhaps that's just my luck though.

Hmm, well, i wasn't there, i didn't examine his equipment, or see his damage like you did. I can't vouch for him, or make excuses, or come up for reasons why he was so terrible in that PT. However, I've had nothing but *terrific* experiences leveling on bones, and having two monks in that Garlaige party i just mentioned was clearly MORE than enough damage to properly do the job. Can't really argue with Chain #5 almost every single time, all of which were 200+

[sudo]

from the way oceanfish and others have described it, a smn is definately not out damaging a blm post 70. In fact no one is really sure what a smn is supposed to do soooo... definately not competition for blm spot.

[imstimpy]

Two Labrynth of Onzozo parties.

Party 1:
60 WHM/BLM
61 WAR/NIN
62 PLD/WAR
62 MNK/WAR
62 DRK/WAR
63 RDM/BLM

Experience
Total Exp: 1163

Experience Chains
EXP Chain #0: 999 - 6 times, 166.5 average.
EXP Chain #1: 164 - 1 times, 164 average.

MNK/WAR
Average Damage: 900.857
Average Percent: 21.312
Average Accuracy: 42.76

DRK/WAR
Average Damage: 1085.857
Average Percent: 25.606
Average Accuracy: 57.24

WAR/NIN
Average Damage: 1445.571
Average Percent: 34.171
Average Accuracy: 59.17

RDM/BLM
Average Damage: 372.857
Average Percent: 8.793
Average Accuracy: 0

Skillchain: Scission
Total Fights: 1
Average Damage: 55
Average Percent: 1.31

Skillchain: Impaction
Total Fights: 1
Average Damage: 10.5
Average Percent: 0.247

Skillchain: Distortion
Total Fights: 5
Average Damage: 29.2
Average Percent: 0.69

The party literally exploded apart due to the difficulty in acquiring exp and conflicting attitudes.

Pary 2:
61 WHM/BLM (later subbed for 62 WHM/BLM)
61 WAR/NIN
61 NIN/WAR
61 RDM/WHM
61 BLM/WHM (later subbed for 63 BLM/RDM)
62 THF/NIN

Experience
Total Exp: 15880

Experience Chains
EXP Chain #0: 3383 - 22 times, 153.77 average.
EXP Chain #1: 3352 - 19 times, 176.42 average.
EXP Chain #2: 3361 - 18 times, 186.72 average.
EXP Chain #3: 3562 - 18 times, 197.89 average.
EXP Chain #4: 2222 - 11 times, 202 average.

61 WAR/NIN
Average Damage: 884.169
Average Percent: 21.421
Average Accuracy: 61.57

61 NIN/WAR
Average Damage: 334.169
Average Percent: 8.044
Average Accuracy: 33.04

62 THF/NIN
Average Damage: 1298.551
Average Percent: 31.337
Average Accuracy: 58.95

61 RDM/WHM
Average Damage: 128.632
Average Percent: 3.096

61 BLM/WHM
Total Fights: 38
Average Damage: 1296.474
Average Percent: 30.2

63 BLM/RDM
Total Fights: 49
Average Damage: 1413.184
Average Percent: 34.758

Skillchain: Scission
Total Fights: 83
Average Damage: 159.301
Average Percent: 3.847
Average Accuracy: 100
Estimated DPS:

Need me to say anything more?

[Icemage]

No jobs are absolutely necessary past level 65.

What you do need, though, are people to fill certain slots, due to the way party dynamics work:

Tank: PLD, NIN, WAR (74+)
Primary Healer: WHM, SMN, RDM
Melee Damage: RNG, THF, SAM, DRK, DRG, MNK
Support/MP recovery: RDM, BRD
Optional - Nuker: BLM, sometimes RDM (way less effective)

In general, you need 2 people who are producing a skillchain, so that "usually" means 2 Melees, though I've seen parties where a Paladin tank can start a skillchain finished by a single Melee.

So "usually" you end up with:

Tank
Melee
Melee
Healer
Support

This usually leaves 1 open slot, which is usually filled by a Nuker to take advantage of the skillchain with a magic burst.

There are other valid combinations that work, however:

Tank
Melee
Support
Nuker
Nuker
Nuker

Tank
Melee
Melee
RDM
BRD
Nuker or Healer

etc.

It all depends on the party dynamics, and how good people are at playing and adjusting to unusual setups. I've never seen a "good" party that had more than 2 melees, however (other than all-BST parties)


Icemage

[MidgardPlas]

Originally posted by sudo
from the way oceanfish and others have described it, a smn is definately not out damaging a blm post 70. In fact no one is really sure what a smn is supposed to do soooo... definately not competition for blm spot.

My favorite XP PT set-up is PLD/RDM/BRD/BLM/BLM/BLM. I've been in a handful of PTs like that since lvl 67 and all of them have been fantastic....constant chain #5s (and sometimes even #6s) with very little downtime in between XP chains. About two weeks ago I did a /sea for players seeking in my level range and I found all of the jobs available for building a PT like the one described above...minus one BLM. Having heard that SMNs deal great dmg after LV 70, I decided to pick up a 74 SMN to fill one of the BLM spots....it didn't work out at all. The SMN, who had capped summoning skill and excellent gear, simply could not keep up with the BLMs in damage and as a result, XP didn't flow nearly as quickly as it would have if there had been a third BLM in the PT instead. Spinning dive, pred claws, and mountain buster all did good damage, but they didn't really compare to the constant nuking of a BLM. On top of that, the SMN LV 70 attacks would miss about 20% of the time....more often than not on chain 4 or 5, ruining our chances of getting the next XP chain.

Don't get me wrong, SMN is a very powerful and useful job, especially after 70, but in an XP PT setting, they don't even come close to matching the dmg output of a BLM.

[imstimpy]

I have heard from some experienced players in my LS that they will often avoid pulling in a BLM with whom they have no acquaintance. I haven't experienced this yet, but I guess they have had problems with non party friendly BLMs who just did not work out. They said they would take a well-played melee over some random BLM.

In my mind, even if there is no skillchain to burst off of, the BLM can still bring a lot of damage to the party even comparable to some of the best melee. Add in a decent skillchain and the BLM is going to see 200 damage or more in bonus damage provided by the magic burst. At this point, the well played BLM is going to be hard to keep up with.

The last three of our party outings have fallen short due to a BLM (or lack thereof). We had a party going in Onzozo when the BLM had to leave. After 30 minutes of searching we could not find a replacement and the party had to disband (see the posted logs to see why we had reason to do so). A few nights ago we attempted to build a party and spent over an hour looking for a BLM. During this time there were only four BLMs from 60-63, three were in parties, and one was busy mining. We proceeded to hunt down every BLM we had partied with, whether they were anonymous or on a different job. In the end, we settled on a RNG for our nuker. Onzozo was busy so we partied on the 12th floor of Delkfutts (lv63 is too high in here, for the record). In a conversation after the party, the RNG said that his parties usually turn out ok if they don't have a BLM. Having a BLM, he said, is definitely the best way to go. This was a RNG who is considered by many to be interchangeable with a BLM. I asked him about replacing a BLM in Onzozo and he said it simply couldn't be done. Last night I didn't even bother trying to build a party since no BLMs were on...

Now, our group may be picky about our party configurations and we may lose out on experience because we can't find the optimal party and refuse to go out. However, when we do get everything set up we pull in 3,000-4,000 exp/hr and net 10,000+ exp per party. It is typically worth the wait for the BLM.