They threw me in jail!

[Tomatoes]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Would also like to add that the reason this can't be a case of double standards is because GMs have no standards!

*baddum*ching*

S-E has already set the precedent that taking over a monster when the claim is lost is permitted.

I don't think they have. Could you elaborate?

[Omni]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Baldodoth: So tell me, what can we change?

Other players behaviors? No.
Other players maturity? No.
Other players perceptions of jobs? No.
Other players greed? No.

Why cant we change them? because there is no incentive or consequence for a PT to play nicely with a BST, other than the fact that you're just be a decent human being.

We all know that being a decent human being and behavior in an MMO are two separate topics, devoid of all relationship between one another when you are completely anonymous.

So, if people bring up, well if you show them what a kind BST you are, they will learn! This is complete and utter naive bullshit.

Double Post Edited:

I still say it's theft, but not griefing. Griefing/harrassment implies the primary intent is to piss the other person off.

But theft causes grief no? Repeated theft becomes harassment too no?
I mean if I spent time to bring down a mob, and is taken from me at 1% HP. It's a little bit of both wouldn't you say? They get the drop: Theft. They did it on purpose, not an accidental claim but they wait till you pet swap: Grief. Repeated offenses: Harassment.

[Eekiki]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I have nothing more to add, as most of what there is to say has already been said, and opinions have pretty much crystalized.

What can you craft with opinion crystals? ^_^

[Harrison]

Re: They threw me in jail!

But theft causes grief no? Repeated theft becomes harassment too no?
I mean if I spent time to bring down a mob, and is taken from me at 1% HP. It's a little bit of both wouldn't you say? They get the drop: Theft. They did it on purpose, not an accidental claim but they wait till you pet swap: Grief. Repeated offenses: Harassment.

I have to agree. A bully who steals a kids lunch money on one day could be merely a thief. A bully who steals a kids lunch money everyday there after is harassing and grieving the kid in addition to being a thief. If the party just happened to take only one of his mobs is one thing, but they were repeatedly and purposefully taking everyone they could from him. How is that not harassment?

As for the lawyer post, if a precedent has been made on certain issues, then why weren't the gilsellers in my previous post punished when they essentially did the same thing the OP did? I guess doing it for real life cash, and doing it to get people to leave the area because they were harassing you are two different cases then. Has the precedence changed since then? To have a precedence you have to have consistency. It's quite clear there is very little consistency in how things are handled across GM's and across the playerbase.

[Ziero]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Obviously it is ok. since S.E fails to do anything about them other then move the pop around. they still dont ban them. still dont inforce ToS "NO MONOPLY RULE" on them,

They kill the mobs. You held them.

yeah i still havent read that in ToS, point this out that i cant charm such a monster. i seen players running around with Hak eye mobs in SSG, an the temple. like i stated earlier. we use them to kill the O.hat nm. so if you came to came the mobs. i guess we are holding huh. hell ive even seen a few bst running around with oozes in beadaux,

So what your saying is any mob i charm an not let die is considered holding? An we were trying to kill them, so what if it takes us a lot longer to do it in groups of 5. eventually one of the Vt would have gotten lucky.

Charming and keeping one mob is ok, heck if you want a dozen Bsts to go charm a dozen random bats that's prefectly fine as well. But you charmed a very special monster, and you charmed EVERY SINGLE VERSION OF THAT MONSTER, and that is against the ToS. If you and your friends killed them when they popped, there would be no problem, if you just charmed one and fought another with it there would be no problem. But intentionally causing all 5 of these unique mobs to not die and respawn WAS a problem.

Obviously i wanted them more if i was forced to call a bunch of friends in so we could charm those eyes long enough to get them out of the zone. or how about the fact i out claimed them on the next 5 pops. An besides why should i have to spend money to make money if i dont have too? so you go out an farm some items an make 100k, but you turned around an spent 150k to do it. doesnt sound like your too smart.

You didn't call your friend because you wanted the item, you called them because you wanted pay back. If you wanted the items you would have claimed and killed them as fast as you could. If the other PT sucked so much they would have stood no chance and you and your friends would have still gotten the satisfaction of screwing them over, and would have done so WITHIN the confines of the ToS. Instead you were taunting the other players by keeping these mobs alive and occasionally fighting one or two vts with them. But you said it yourself, you spent most of the time waiting on your reward timer to be up.

nope you dont have to camp ulli to understand this. but they sure didnt have a clue. yeah keep pulling with Ra, when you got a bst next to you with dia. an your other party members with /war are to lazy. an since you no where even near the level, or never even seen the zone. i wont even try to explain the position of anythign in that zone.

Wait, let me guess. There's a room, with tunnels, and aggressive monsters right? Most of the zones from release to Zilart are *very* similar, I don't have to be high lvl to know that. There's also the fact that I don't have to be high lvl to go there. I enjoy exploring high lvl dungeons, do it all the time. I've had a map of SSG since I was lvl 30, soloed the entire thing. I know Newton like the back of my hand, and there are many lvl 80 monsters there. So why exactly do I have to be high lvl to go down to that area?

You still dont get it. You always always always omit parts of the TOS you dont want to hear.
THEY DID BREAK TOS, just that GM didnt do anything about it.

Does the TOS say not to disrupt play?? IT DOES. They were disrupting lil_nins play from the getgo.

This is where you always conviently leave things out.

Just because the GM doesnt want to enforce them for fucking aruond with lil nin doesnt mean its not breaking the TOS.

This is where my call for consistency comes in.

If lil nin gets shitted on for halting play with charming all the mobs, THEY should get shitted on for stealing on pet swaps. you know why? BOTH DISRUPT PLAY. They were preventing him to get the drops from the mob.

It goes both ways ziero. Every single point you ever made can go both ways.

Again, this is where we want consistency.

Just because a gm didnt jail them doesnt mean they didnt break TOS. got it?

According to 'lil nin' the first time it happened, he wasn't even within viewing distance of either the mob or the PT. Same as the second time. Now the third time he claims they followed him, which the very well might have, but if they sucked at claiming so badly and he's so great at it, how come they got it?

Rude as it may be if it's yellow it's fair, that's not against the ToS. But him preventing the death and respawning of a special monster does go against the ToS.

and about that stupid ram in konchatat. No one cares if it WAS a hnm. the fact that NOW, when lv. 75 cap has been our for oh... some 2-3 years, IT IS NOT AN HNM. for a 75 CC to smash a lv. 55 mob is not the same as a lv. 75 player.

I find it funny that someone posted the definition of an HNM, i.e. what makes a mob and HNM, yet you're still trying to argue it.

huh? that's 19 levels off. not 4. Since you dont know how pets work, CC is an uncapped pet. So it goes to about 1-3 levels under the bst's current level so that makes CC vs Steelfleece a lv. 73 vs. a lv. 56.

Again, thank you for proving you fail at comprehending what gets posted.

I said Steelfleece was a lvl 60 mob, harrison corrected me by saying it was 55. In reality it's a 55-56 mob so he was right, but that's where the 4 lvl comment comes into play. Also, harrison made a comment about a lvl 70 bst fighting the eyes and that they were lvl 65 in an attempt to disway the jug pet dilema by making note of the lvl difference. I then stated that Little ninja was a 75 Bst and the mobs he was fighting were lvl 60, thus negating his comments. Seeing as you ignored all of that, and many other things posted, I suggest you stop relpying.

Have you even fought Steelfleece? you keep making him out to be some big scary taru eating ram or something but he is blind. really, try it yourself, you'd be amazed at how blind he is. who cares if he spams mighty strikes and bleats, he wont hit you anyways, unless you're taking him on as lv. 60 or something. The only thing it has going for him is that it has a good amount of hp. so thats why it takes some time to bring him down. pet attacks are always going to be stronger vs. the mob than player attacks. got it?

Gee, a ninja is able to solo an HNM, who knew? It's not like nins have the second highest evasion in game, two highly potent dmg mitigating spells, three very powerful debuffs that cause a monster to skip and miss attacks and the ability to go all out DD gear without any negative impact on their performance. Carrie doesn't have Utsu, high eva, Slow/paralyze/blind however so that mighty strikes that was a joke to you will actually connect on carrie and other jobs.

No crap. Guess you didn't pick up on the sarcasm. You were the one calling the BST cheap for not wanting to waste gil farming for eyes by using jug pets. I guess rangers should be using bullets to farm since they aren't killing the mobs fast enough for other respawns by using level 1 arrows. >.>

I called Bst cheap? Where? when? I know I said the he said that he was being 'cheap' by not using jugs in this situation. Now I'm not saying he's wrong for not using them, as I understand why he wouldn't want to. But under the circumstances it could have saved him a world of trouble. He said himself that he had to run out of sight from the mob to claim a new pet. While he was no where near the monster he was fighting he charmed a new pet, changing target and claim, and came back to find that the other people killed the eye. He did this again and had the same situation occur. After realizing these people were takin 'his' mob during pet swaps he was faced with a choice, use jugs to prevent running away from the monster or keep trying to charm new pet while they tried to claim the mob. He chose the cheap way and suffered because of it. I never said he HAS to use jugs, I just said he should of in this situation.

Now really, that's three times people claimed I said something I didn't. If you're going to accuse me of saying something please provide proof I actually said it.

Yeah, the other party did everything they could to prevent the BST from keeping claim on his mobs. That is the definition of theft and grieving. Read the OP again, the GM wasn't punishing him for "holding mobs" (which he wasn't since he was using them to kill other mobs). He was in trouble for disrupting other's gameplay. The same thing the other party was doing to him in the first place. Get it through your head, they both were violating the ToS, but because the inital party went unpunished (which is usually the case in everything) you claim they aren't guilty. Explain to me then why the gilsellers who kept stroper chymes charmed and ran around the zone weren't punished in my previous post. GM's are far from perfect, and punishments are handed out based on their judgment

What did the other PT do to make him lose claim? Two of the times they 'stole' it he wasn't even within viewing distance. The OP said this himself. They weren't actively harrassing him they were camping a quasi NM and going for everything they could. They didn't spam him with anything, stand on top of him while he was fighting, or call their friends to run him out. They saw yellow, mobs they claimed yellow mobs. If you see a yellow named mob with half HP that drops an expensive item just sitting there are you not going to claim it? These weren't split second claims, he ran AWAY from the monster, released claim and by the time he came back it was dead. That's not them spamming anything on top of him that's him being careless with a money mob. They were rude to do it intentionally but they were not in violation of the ToS. Had him and his friends then KILLED all the mobs when they popped instead of sitting there holding them then this situation would have been much different. He would not have been jailed, he would have still gotten the satisfaction of screwing them over and he would have made some gil on top of it all.

And btw, the reason gil sellers used to be able to do this to Stropher Chymes back when they dropped archers is simple, this rule was not in their ToS at the time. It was updated and changed after the NM update and now is enforced. Parties can no longer hold HNMs to bring it to their time zones. On top of threat of imprisonment many of them go 'super sayajin' now. SE did this to STOP holding.

He intentionally broke the ToS to intentionally harrass these players. That's not in dispute, nor should it be because he ADMITED it. He had other options and ignored them all out of spite and landed himself in jail. Then he comes here whining about 'bst injustice' and trying to pass himself off as a some sort of martyr for 'Bsts rights' when the bottom line is this had nothing to do with him being a Bst. At all. Not in any way.

And as for Bsts getting 'pissed on and laughed at' it's nothing to do with the job, it's the player. An ass hat Whm is an ass hat War is an ass hat Rng is an ass hat Bst. Since, you know, everyone can be every job. The only stigmata I knew of about Bsts is that people thought their pets ruined PT exp and didn't invite them, which any smart person knew was incorrect under certain circumstances. Just because he was a Bst is NOT the reason he was treated as he was. He said it himself that he would be out of sight of the mob he was fighting when he lost claim and the other pt gained it, and that's his fault not theirs. They WERE wrong to steal mobs from him, morally imo, but it was not against the ToS. And if they came here and started saying stuff about how fun it was to screw him over I'd be arguing with them too, because I'm bored at work and like a good discussion. But they're not, he is, thus the focus is on him and his actions.

There is no biased towards Bsts in this situation, it was two parties competeing for rare drops in a small area. One party used dirty tactics that were within the rules while the other blatantly broke them.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Not much i could have dont in that situation. Walk away in the end only lets the other party know they can pull this sort of stuff on me. an whos to say they wont seek me out in my next eye camp or spread the word how easy it is for me to get booted from an area..

What i did was about as far as one could have done. i chose to charm the mobs an use them as pets. i could have done worse an depoped them faster then they could spawn. in the olden days i could have mpked them 20 different ways.

[Ziero]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Baldodoth: So tell me, what can we change?

Other players behaviors? No.
Other players maturity? No.
Other players perceptions of jobs? No.
Other players greed? No.

The OP could have done many other things to end up with a far more favorable solution for himself. He made a bad decision.

Why cant we change them? because there is no incentive or consequence for a PT to play nicely with a BST, other than the fact that you're just be a decent human being.

and there's no 'incentive' for a bst to play nice with other people. Plenty of Bsts are asses just like many other jobs. Stop trying to make like you're all saints and innocent victims.

But theft causes grief no? Repeated theft becomes harassment too no?
I mean if I spent time to bring down a mob, and is taken from me at 1% HP. It's a little bit of both wouldn't you say? They get the drop: Theft. They did it on purpose, not an accidental claim but they wait till you pet swap: Grief. Repeated offenses: Harassment.

Where do you keep getting this 1% BS from? You just making it up cause it seems that way. If the Bst is pet swapping a money mob at 1%, that's stupidity on the Bsts part, especially when he knows other people will try to take it. I don't think the OP was doing it at 1% however nor am I calling him stupid for doing something I didn't say he did.

Again, this wasn't a split second 'theft', he lost claim on the mob after running out of sight range. If you can't see something, it's fair game no matter how long you fought it.

Double Post Edited:

Not much i could have dont in that situation. Walk away in the end only lets the other party know they can pull this sort of stuff on me. an whos to say they wont seek me out in my next eye camp or spread the word how easy it is for me to get booted from an area..

What i did was about as far as one could have done. i chose to charm the mobs an use them as pets. i could have done worse an depoped them faster then they could spawn. in the olden days i could have mpked them 20 different ways.

If you and your friends killed them when they popped, there would be no problem, if you just charmed one and fought another with it there would be no problem.

If you wanted the items you would have claimed and killed them as fast as you could. If the other PT sucked so much they would have stood no chance and you and your friends would have still gotten the satisfaction of screwing them over, and would have done so WITHIN the confines of the ToS

Had him and his friends then KILLED all the mobs when they popped instead of sitting there holding them then this situation would have been much different. He would not have been jailed, he would have still gotten the satisfaction of screwing them over and he would have made some gil on top of it all.

That never once crossed your mind? It would have been a win win win situation for you had you chosen to do that. You made a bad decision though. And please stop talking about unfairness and such in regards to the ToS when you admit you would have rather MPKed them. Again, people like you are the reason any one ever saw Bsts as 'black sheep'.

[dworkin]

Re: They threw me in jail!

The OP could have done many other things to end up with a far more favorable solution for himself. He made a bad decision.

and there's no 'incentive' for a bst to play nice with other people. Plenty of Bsts are asses just like many other jobs. Stop trying to make like you're all saints and innocent victims.



Where do you keep getting this 1% BS from? You just making it up cause it seems that way. If the Bst is pet swapping a money mob at 1%, that's stupidity on the Bsts part, especially when he knows other people will try to take it. I don't think the OP was doing it at 1% however nor am I calling him stupid for doing something I didn't say he did.

Again, this wasn't a split second 'theft', he lost claim on the mob after running out of sight range. If you can't see something, it's fair game no matter how long you fought it.

LoL wow i read 7 pages worth, an all you say is the exact same things.

it seems everyone has stated lil nins move wasnt smart, then again neiter was the other party. an i cant blame the guy for doing what he did. hey if it was me id depop everyone of those mobs. or worse fight thousand eyes vs thousand eyes an show them i dont give a fuuc about the drops. i give a fuuc about watching you watching me not give a damn.

In the end its called game etiquette. sadly with the vast amount of 13 year olds playing this game. an considering this is prob their first MMO. its no wonder why this game has gone to hell in a handbasket.

an for the record. G.S held things for a long while. i seen them hols Sim for over an hour til help got there. nothing happened. an i bet every Mofo in the zone sent a GM complaint. An yeah for the longest time skills was monopolyzing the ulli camp 24/7. ask an of the sky LS's. an they will confirm it.

Some bst are ass's an others arent. ive raised more noobs then you could ever imagine. i have even stopped my exp, an did a marathon run thru a zone just to raise someone. in my camps at places like the tree. i have had pullers constantly asking me to bail them out cause they got a korrigan link, a crab link. hell ive already been asked to kill the sleepaga II nm over 10 times,

its like my daddy always said. Son when you play with fire, your gona get burnt. well the party played with fire, an the part got burnt. i dont feel bad for the bungholes in any way shape or form.

an careful what u post my young one. alot of bst do brouse these forums. just never post much on them like myself.

[Omni]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Where do you keep getting this 1% BS from? You just making it up cause it seems that way. If the Bst is pet swapping a money mob at 1%, that's stupidity on the Bsts part, especially when he knows other people will try to take it. I don't think the OP was doing it at 1% however nor am I calling him stupid for doing something I didn't say he did.

do you play bst? no. stfu.

making it up? that's one of the funniest things youve said yet. /clap

you pet swap for many reasons, not necessarily at 1%. 1% is to avoid xp penalty. if you can finish the mob.
if your pet dies half way thru the fight, you still pet swap. if the OP couldnt finish the mob with 1 pet, and if the mob has lots of hp left, he needs another pet to finish it off. its not stupidity, its just bst works. if he doesnt pet swap he dies. he doesnt pet swap because he feels like it, he does it cuz he HAS to.

are you even comprehending this? ive explained this to you many times.

my examples were typical of what happens when a mob is taken from a bst on a pet swap. that's where you get 1% from. it really doesnt mater what % of hp is left.

in both cases, mob still goes yellow regardless of how much hate the bst has.

Ziero, you understand that you are completely inept of everything you are arguing about right? anyhow, im bowing out of this one now. 100+ and the boy still comes up with some interesting things to say. im also of having to explain a job to him that he claims to know so much about.

you won, you beat me into submission with your stupidity.

good luck.