A little help for bards (and their parties..)

[Balfree]

I made this after a stupid party created much chaos because of song formations:

(coming from a lvl 38 brd, please add anything i might have missed, and ill change it in the chart)

[Icemage]

Good stuff, though the situation changes frequently depending on your party configuration. Good bards always ask what their party members prefer, but the "usual" songs:

WAR SAM DRG DRK: Almost always either Minuet(+ATK) and Madrigal(+ACC), or if all melees are using Sushi and have decent accuracy gears, then Minuetx2(+ATK). SAM/RNG will occasionally request Prelude(+Ranged ACC). Remember to be nice and hit DRKs with Ballad after the battle along with the mages.

MNK: Similar to the other melee DDs above, except some MNKs like Sinewy or Herculean Etude(+STR), depending on what you're fighting - also fun to use this right before their WS in a skillchain if you have time.

RNG: Most RNGs like Prelude(+Ranged ACC) and Minuet(+ATK), some prefer Minuetx2 if they have really good gear.

THF: I get all sorts of requests from THF, usually Madrigal (+ACC) and Minuet(+ATK) or Minuetx2(+ATK), but sometimes Dextrous Etude(+DEX) as well.

PLD: Almost always want Balladx2, though I've had unusual requests like Vital Etude(+VIT), Madrigal(+ACC) or Minne(+DEF) before.

NIN: Ninjas all have their own favorite songs. The problem is, most of them are not compatible with other melees. If you had no other melees, ninjas would prefer Mambo(+Evasion), March(+Haste), but that situation hardly ever happens in reality. Some ninjas do like Madrigal(+ACC) and/or Minuet(+ATK) to help them retain hate by hitting for more damage. Always ask a Ninja what they would like and discuss how to best get them what they need.

BLM: Pre-level 55, BLMs like Ballad and Learned Etude(+INT). After 55, nearly all BLMs prefer Balladx2.

WHM: Pre-55, Ballad + Spirited Etude. Post-55, Balladx2. Spirited Etude for WHM is only a priority if the WHM is the main mage casting enfeebling magic (Slow, Paralyze, Silence)

RDM: Same as WHM. Spirited Etude pre-55 is higher priority for RDM than it is for WHM, since they are almost always primary enfeeblers.

SMN: I've never seen any SMN who cared about any songs except Ballads.

BST: Pretty much the same as most DDs, though on one occasion I did get a request for Enchanting Etude(+CHR) when the BST was trying to control a link. It's very rare to party with BST, however.

Also, note that song priority is important if you are using instruments which give + to the song you are singing. Here's how song priority works:

There are 2 song "slots" available for you to use on each player (every bard has separate slots, so if you for some reason are partied with another bard, each of you can put 2 songs on each player, as long as they are all different songs).

When you sing a buff song, all players in range will get that effect. However, since each player can only have 2 songs on them from you at a time, if they already had 2 songs, what happens when you sing a 3rd song? Well, it depends.

Buff songs all have a base duration of 120 seconds (2 minutes). For each +1 on the instrument you are using for the appropriate song, your base song duration increases for that song by 10 seconds, on top of any increased effects.

This is useful, but it can sometimes be an annoyance.

When a 3rd song lands on any player, the game throws away the existing song on that player with the lowest remaining duration, and adds the new song (even if the new song has less duration than the one being discarded).

Example:

You sing Madrigal with a +2 instrument (140 seconds), then immediately start singing Minuet with a +2 instrument(140 second duration).

Minuet takes 8 seconds to sing, so by the time you finish, you have 132 seconds left on Madrigal.

Now let's say you start singing Ballad. It takes 8 seconds to sing Ballad, so when Ballad finishes, your existing songs are: Madrigal with 124 seconds, Minuet with 132 seconds. Your Madrigal will drop off, to be replaced with Ballad, even though Ballad has less duration remaining, because it is the "new" song.

Your songs now look like this: Minuet with 132 seconds, Ballad with 120 seconds.

Now, let's say you start singing Minne with a +2 instrument. 8 seconds later you finish. Ballad now has 112 seconds, Minuet has 124 seconds, so Ballad falls off, even though Minuet is technically older than Ballad. You now have Minne for 140 seconds and Minuet for 124 seconds, once you finish singing Minne.

This is a very important issue for bards at level 55+ - make sure to set up your song schedule to ensure that you don't replace Ballad II with Ballad I (or if a mage accidentally wanders near the melees and picks up the wrong song, such as SMN coming in for Earthen Ward)


Icemage

[Niland]

claw cyclone etc~ ^^

[Balfree]

the most important idea in here is: pld formation, they NEED ballads and sometimes they dont even know it and wont listen to you telling them to form up

[Russta]

I can spot a massive error in first four pics, the word "DRG" is present.

[RuneGrey]

I disagree. While this may not be the ideal setup for post 65 (with DRG and WAR occupying the same slot on the Light Skillchain roster) having a WAR and especially a DRG is not a bad thing for a party. Every type of player can work well in a balanced party, provided its been built with adequate skillchain setup in mind and has a proper balance between damage dealers and mages. DRG and WAR are a good combo post 70 with Impulse Drive and Full Break or Steel Cyclone for Darkness, or even with a 3 step Light SC with a Paladin for Wheeling Thrust -> Savage Blade -> Decimation.

Personally? I think its pretty insulting that anyone would bring the whole 'Anti Dragoon' crap up in a discussion like this. A Bard can make even the most medeocre player shine with our abilities, and can make an excellent player turn into a small god that helps the PT rake in the XP. I've met many good Dragoons who have made our party work a notch higher than others players had, and I was glad to have them with us.

Back on topic. Personally, these charts are pretty nice, although really its hard to make such nice, pretty formations when you're dealing with some of the camps that you have to put up with at times. Sometimes you're just scraping by on the skin of your teeth for song placement, and if you should happen to have loose hate in the party, things can go all to heck and back. Really, I think the biggest part of being a Bard is figuring out when the best time to sing is, and where to best place yourself. Adapt to what the party is doing - you can't always expect that the PT is going to be able to position themselves perfectly for you.

[PetriW]

The day I meet a ranger who's actually aware enough for #2-4 to be possible I'll quit FFXI.
Which means I'll play FFXI all my life.

Anyway, for pull ranger should still have prelude from previous fight.
I always tend to do
Madrigal -> Prelude -> Minuet -> Ballad 1 -> Ballad 2
and then just cycle that in a 1 rng party.
Elegy and Threnody in there somewhere based on time.

Last 10 levels or so I've been the puller and then any kind of nice staged song order gets thrown out the door. Especially with rangers song order varies a lot based on how good they are at where to stand. (Shina goes on a RAMPAGE!...)

[Balfree]

Russta im guessing that was a joke right, you, as a good player people say you are and as a quite popular player, should give an example, DRGs arent the suck period, cut it out already i say.

For the others:

I made this to educate those parties you mentioned, i'm not getting nearly half feedback as i wanted, it's hard to make a stand on something nowadays -.- im trying...

Sure sometimes confined spots are tough to sing/play in, but those are really the only situations where the bard has to think ahead, bad hate control usualy means bad members, im assuming everyone knows their place and knows that when a mage is being mauled to death, it means trouble, get my drift?

The point above poster made on rangers: thats exactly why i try to show people how the songs work, because people need education on how some stuff work, most people start yelling and calling names to eachother and creating drama when something goes wrong, sure sometimes i do too, but then the next day everything is alright with the world and i try to explain stuff to people, like what i did here with the pictures.. that info is taken from granted by all the bards, but do 50% of the players in the game know what formations to do? it's frustrating for a bard to explain stuff sometimes: people dont listen, people ignore you, people are looking at the tv instead of the PC screen, people think you should stop your yapping and start your singing, people claim to know everything, and people just plain don't care, how does one deal with all of this? one finds different ways to educate players into fucking learning what team work means.

End of semi-rant.

[Treth]

The biggest problem I have lvling brd is people don't listen. I'll say (tank) move away from mages so the DDs+tank don't get hit with Ballad (unless its a pld tank, in which I ask him to set up the mob so I can hit him and the mages with Ballad and not hit the DDs) But they always have trouble remembering where to stand and such, and it really makes it frustrating

nice charts btw ^^ if more people actually KNEW about brd dynamics, it would be MUCH easier to cast spells successfully. So ppl who aren't brd should read this as well as brds.

[Balfree]

suppose i shouldve posted it somewhere else?

[Gman]

In some cases (crawlers, raptors, scorpions, etc) the mob has projectile attacks that you do not want to hit your mages. In all of your PLD triangle formations, I noticed that the mob is facing the mages, due to the PLD having to be on the mage side of the mob for ballad. How do you counteract this? Cant have the mages getting nailed with poison breath every fight.

I know this is fine at the start of the fight, or before it, but if you have to re-apply ballad mid-fight, what do you do?

[Icemage]

Something like this usually works. Sometimes you can't always manage it, due to camp being in a tunnel/against a wall/whatever, in which case you have to improvise.


Icemage

[Gman]

Originally posted by Icemage
Something like this usually works. Sometimes you can't always manage it, due to camp being in a tunnel/against a wall/whatever, in which case you have to improvise.


Icemage

Ah, thanks... should be fun getting parties in the dunes to align that way for fighting flies.. orz. I guess at that stage you can probably just throw the same buffs on everyone since you have no ballad anyway.

I should be party-ready by tonight.. I'm level 9 now.

By the way, for those low level parties, what is better? Madrigal+Minuet, Minuet+Paeon II, or Madrigal+Paeon II? Or would it depend on what you are fighting? Ie. gob bombs and cursed sphere, plus worms tremors/sandspin would almost have to have Paeon, where crabs you just want to hit them, and hit them hard.

[Icemage]

Madrigal is by far the strongest song you have early on. +15-17 accuracy is huge at low levels (and it's not bad at high levels either).

Generally speaking, early levels you use Madrigal + Minuet until you get to Ballad at 25. Splash in Paeon to heal the party after fights if people are dusted up (or if some large AoE like a Bomb Toss just went off).


Icemage

[Balodoth]

Icemage is correct. Pre-Ballad Madrigal is the best song you have. You'll usually Minuet since you already have a +2 for it. Otherwise, as long as you pay attention and use your sub effectively, you can't screw up. As the mob dies you can even set Mambo and Paeon for the puller. When you hit Qufim, just before Ballad, if your party does very many VT's you may want to double Minuet since ACC isn't a big issue. But really, you won't have many choices in the first place, so it's really difficult to be a bad BRD.