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What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

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  • What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

    In my time playing FFXI I have seen countless different posts/people state that race in the end makes no difference except in what gear you should use for whatever job you are playing. However, the difference in the end is actually more than this in some cases. The purpose of this thread is as stated in the title, an honest look at racial differences, solely so that people looking to start the game will have the information that would be useful for making their racial choice.

    First of all I would like to point out that my race of choice was Elvaan. I'm not going to make some ignorant statement to the order of Elvaan being the best at everything or some trash. What I will say is this, there are certain jobs that some races are naturally better than others at. Now you might argue that gear + skill > race. This is true but, assuming gear was of an equal level and skill was equal as well, there remain certain races that would rise above the rest in certain jobs. I will proceed to outline a few of those and specific details as to why. In any chart, the stats in red are the highest of the races and the stats in blue are the lowest.

    Summoner - Tarutaru have the highest potential to be the best summoners in the game. Period. The reason for this is simple. the only stats that actually matter for SMN are MP, Summoning Magic skill, and Avatar perpetuation reduction etc. So since everyone can get the same gear relating to these stats, and summoning magic skill is the same regardless of race, the only racial variable here is MP. As we all know Tarutaru have considerably more MP than any other race. For instance, Tarutaru SMN/WHM at 75 has a base MP pool of 978, versus Hume at 795 for same job and level. All other races are equal or less than Hume in MP.

    Monk - Elvaan, Galka, and Mithra have the highest damage dealing potential.

    Galka - 1753 HP 73 STR 70 DEX 77 VIT 61 MND

    Elvaan - 1632 HP 75 STR 67 DEX 73 VIT 66 MND

    Mithra - 1541 HP 67 STR 77 DEX 67 VIT 58 MND

    Hume - 1541 HP 70 STR 70 DEX 70 VIT 61 MND

    Tarutaru - 1345 HP 64 STR 70 DEX 67 VIT 58 MND

    You will notice that while the top 3 on the list have some give and take, the bottom 2(Hume and Taru) are inevitably behind, that is of course only if being a DD is your sole concern. The numbers listed are MNK/WAR 75/37 btw.

    I show these examples because I think it's important to realize the strengths and weaknesses within your race of choice. Those differences are part of their inherent beauty, and should not be diminished by pretending they do not matter. Also I would like to point out that you can play any job as any race of course. And if you are skilled at your job, can be a "Paragon of <insert job name) Excellence" no matter what your race is. However, while most jobs have many factors involved which make most races relatively equal with smart gear choices, there yet remain some(like SMN and MNK) that are more limited.


    My main class is Paladin, and this is a job that is wonderfully fun(in my opinion at least). It also is one job which any race can play at on a very close level. For example:

    Galka - 1452 HP 143 MP 75 STR 62 DEX 77 VIT 53 AGI 64 MND

    Elvaan - 1331 HP 266 MP 77 STR 59 DEX 73 VIT 50 AGI 69 MND

    Hume - 1240 HP 342 MP 72 STR 62 DEX 70 VIT 56 AGI 64 MND

    Mithra - 1240 HP 342 MP 69 STR 69 DEX 67 VIT 61 AGI 61 MND

    Tarutaru - 1044 HP 525 MP 66 STR 62 DEX 67 VIT 59 AGI 61 MND

    As you can see, while HP and MP vary greatly, you can usually convert from one to the other with gear to even things out a bit. For the most part in the end the races roughly even out if geared properly(Though usually a Taru will still have more MP and less HP and perhaps less VIT). Many of the jobs, especially those with HP and MP, can be made to equal out this way.

    In closing I would like to point out a few things. First of all the difference between the strongest and weakest race in each particular stat(not counting HP and MP) is usually about 8-11 points at 75. Elvaan usually have 11 more STR than Tarutaru, and usually 11 less INT, likewise that Mithra usually have 11 more AGI than Elvaan. Sometimes the difference may only be 8-10 points of whichever statistic. My main reason to point this out is that many people claim that racial differences are so minor as to be a non-issue when not talking about MP or HP. I am merely pointing out that this is not the case. 8-11 points is a serious difference, and even at 75 would probably take 2-3 slots of gear to equalize. However, once you have faced the reality of this, you can plan your gear accordingly, and using determination and cunning, figure out ways to go beyond your racial limits, rather than merely saying, "Race makes no difference."

    I encourage all of you, not only to know the monsters that you fight, but know yourself as well. Once you have done so, you will be far better prepared for whatever lies ahead in your adventures in Vana'diel.

  • #2
    Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

    It's all nice and well to be specific, but at the end of the day, it's mostly your stats vs. the monsters--not your fellow party member's. (Well, Cure V can use the Elvaan MND, but I'd take a healer who can toss out Cure V the fastest over the highest cure value WHM any day of the week.)

    If whatever your race is--using whatever equipment you have--is working out, I really couldn't care less if your STR or MND or INT or whatever is 11 higher or lower than mine at Lv.75. =b
    Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
    yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
    Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
    leaving no trace in the water.

    - Mugaku

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    • #3
      Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

      Skill is always most paramount - the best stats in the world won't help you if you don't make use of them.

      With that said, the original post is spot on in a couple of respects.

      The only nearly-insurmountable difference between various races at any job are the HP and MP totals. Specifically, there are a handful of jobs that care how much HP you have to any technical degree, and even fewer that care how much MP you have in the maximum tank.

      Toward this end, the jobs that highlight differences in HP:

      Paladin (tank)
      Ninja (tank)
      Warrior (occasional tank)
      Dark Knight (Souleater)
      Red Mage (Convert)
      White Mage (Level 75 merit abilites, Martyr and Devotion)
      Blue Mage (breath spells)

      The first five jobs on this list care most about maximum HP in the sense of what they do in some significant fashion. WHM only care in the lightest sense of the term unless you take things to extreme like some Tarutaru WHMs who have 600HP at level 75, and even there it's just two abilities out of many.

      Paladins, Ninjas, and Warriors when tanking, depend heavily on their maximum HP to increase their survivability in the face of strong enemy attacks - the higher their maximum, the more likely they'll weather an attack, and the greater the chance that a healer will have to get their HP back up before the next attack lands. Ninjas depend less on max HP, due to their habit of evading attacks, but it nonetheless becomes an issue at some point.

      Dark Knights don't often use Souleater, but there are specific instances where this is desirable (Kraken Club + Soul Eater + Blood Weapon, for instance), and having more HP means you dish out more punishment. At level 75, this is a curious and very potent tactic and worthy of mention because it is so good (and perforce makes any Galka DRK with access to a Kraken Club a force to be reckoned with...as long as he stays alive).

      Red Mage is the only job that cares about maximum MP to any serious degree, and this is due specifically because of Convert. The closer to parity your HP and MP are, the more potent the ability becomes. Some players go out of their way to collect gear and/or get merits that let them bring these two numbers closer together, but unless you've got unbelievably good gear, chances are your only hope to reach a point where your max HP is equal to your max MP + 1 is if you're a Tarutaru.

      I've posted screenshots in the Red Mage forum here showing my progress on my Tarutaru Red Mage Convert ratio, and I recently hit 1245 HP and 1200 MP. I honestly don't think these numbers are possible for any other race on the Red Mage job, no matter what sort of gear you have. Doesn't make me a better RDM just because I have larger HP/MP numbers than others, since their gear may be better than mine, but it certainly doesn't hurt, and you certainly don't need that much to perform in a good way. Nonetheless, the differences are there.

      Aside from the top five jobs on my list, I don't consider any other job to be racially biased in a noticeable, let alone significant, way.


      Icemage

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      • #4
        Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

        The way this usually comes up is new players asking what race they should be, worrying that that choice will limit their ability to play a given job or set of jobs at all. The proper phrasing would be something along the lines of "Race can make a difference as far as stats and job selection go, but it's not enough of one that you should let that override other factors in the decision." But that's really long-winded, so we just say it doesn't matter. Everyone figures out the reality eventually.
        Ellipses on Fenrir
        There is no rush. If you're not willing to take your time, don't be surprised when no one wants to give you much of theirs.
        ,
        . . .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

          I am quite suprised to see Mithra being the highest VIT and Galka being the 2nd lowest especially when you look at the begining stats from Wiki for pld.
          Race HP MP STR DEX VIT AGI INT MND CHR
          Hume 30 16 7 6 8 5 5 7 7
          Elvaan 32 14 8 6 9 4 4 8 7
          Tarutaru 26 22 6 6 8 6 7 7 7
          Galka 35 10 8 6 10 5 5 7 6
          Mithra 30 16 7 8 8 6 5 7 6

          Mithras vit starts at 8 where as Galkas start at 10.

          i'd be intrested to know why galaks VIT stat doesn't increase at the same rate as others.
          Last edited by Jarre; 11-30-2007, 04:30 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

            When I see making a race, there's two factors I decide and not stats.

            1. If I like the race.
            2. Their battle animations/stances with various weapons.

            Yup, Mithra's battle stance with GKT blows gas from a year old bean-o burrito.




            Originally posted by FFXI's view on other MMORPGs
            'Start learning boy, no you don't get a tutorial, this is man's country! Tutorial's are for little sissy babies who need their mommies! Now, are you a sissy baby or a man?&quot;
            Dymlos
            Bahamut server
            Lv 75 Ranger Lv 75 Samurai

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            • #7
              Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

              Jarre, you're reading it wrong (although I have to admit the way the OP arranged it makes it hard to read for everyone.) Number is on the left, corresponding stat goes right. What you're actually reading is Galka DEX vs Mithra DEX.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                ahh my bad!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                  Originally posted by Jarre View Post
                  I am quite suprised to see Mithra being the highest VIT and Galka being the 2nd lowest especially when you look at the begining stats from Wiki for pld.
                  Race HP MP STR DEX VIT AGI INT MND CHR
                  Hume 30 16 7 6 8 5 5 7 7
                  Elvaan 32 14 8 6 9 4 4 8 7
                  Tarutaru 26 22 6 6 8 6 7 7 7
                  Galka 35 10 8 6 10 5 5 7 6
                  Mithra 30 16 7 8 8 6 5 7 6
                  Mithras vit starts at 8 where as Galkas start at 10.
                  i'd be intrested to know why galaks VIT stat doesn't increase at the same rate as others.
                  I think you may be looking at the numbers wrong. It says Mithra have the lowest Vit, tied with Taru, while galka have the highest. Its (## Stat) so mithra Vit is 57 while Galka Vit is 67.

                  Regadless of that, having the highest in a stat doesn't instantly make you the best at something. Elvaan may hit harder, but they'll miss more then Mithra, who in turn will hit less then Elvaan. Meanwhile, Humes, while not being the best, will still keep up on average as they have average stats all around, no strengths, no weaknesses. And though you can say "well Elvaan can equip more dex/acc gear" in respones a Mithra could equip more Str/Att gear. So in the end, the racial stats are really something minor in this game, especially at higher lvls.
                  "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                    Personally, I've only ever found the largest difference in race in FFXI to affect tanking.

                    Gearing for Taru Ranger is a lot easier than gearing for Taru Paladin.

                    A Taru PLD can make MP to HP sacrifices, just like an Elvaan WHM could make HP to MP sacrifices. These are sacrifices that are easier to make based on the existing advantages of each race, but the MP to HP gear is much more lacking in FFXI than HP to MP gear.

                    That said, Taru PLD is still probably your best EXP PLD, hands down. People can talk all they want about how good they think NINs are, they've not PTed with Taru PLDs, they're better than most if not all NINs. Its just when it comes down to the really, really hard hits from HNMs and Gods that Tarus tend to suffer and that's where a Taru PLD can't afford to slack off, they have to be on top of thier game.

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                    • #11
                      Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                      Ok check it. I am Elvaan aswell but sometimes i wish i had picked a more balanced character. Loading myself up on MP rings and gear really sucks at times. Not to mention Elvaan RSE is the most flaming outfit ever.
                      I have an Idea. We can switch servers every three months right?
                      I changed to Sereph someone had my char. name. so i had to pick a new one.
                      My identity is wiped.
                      What is the big deal if they let you change race. And if they want go ahead and put a 1 year recast on it.
                      I think that would be resonable and it would make the game cool again for people that thought they chose the wrong race. Dont get me wrong i love my Race but I have always wanted to try another race.
                      If this cant be done i am curiouse to know why?

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                      • #12
                        Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                        ok, so are we STILL talking about racial stats? 5+ years after the game is out and someone is STILL trying to make the point regarding racial stats?

                        With exceptions to the HP/MP stats when it comes to tanking...

                        Honestly, this is completely retarded.


                        taru edit: sure you might say, oh but ur a taru of course you'll say that. you have something to prove. all i have to say to that is go put 2 mnks together. 2 well equipped mnks will keep pace with each other no matter the race. 1 well equipped taru mnk will out dd considerably 1 decently equipped elvaan mnk. just go try it out and you'll realize this importance on racial stats is so silly.
                        Last edited by Omni; 11-30-2007, 08:47 AM.
                        Omni@Remora: NIN75 RNG75 MNK75 COR75 BST64 BRD53
                        ♪♫ San d'Oria Complete ♪♫ ZM Complete ♪♫ CoP Complete ♪♫ AM Complete ♪♫

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                        • #13
                          Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                          Your saying that if you equip a taru and elvaan mnk the same that they will "keep pace with each other" Keep Pace=same amount of damage?
                          But then you say a well equip taru will out DD a decent equiped elvaan, why do you want to have different gears if you say its pretty much the same

                          Sorry But Elvaan have better stats than a Taru for DD.
                          Strip them both nakid, i suppose they would "keep pace"? No over all the Evlaan would do more dmg.

                          Its like saying a Elvaan will cure about the same as a Taru. Makes no sense.
                          thats why they made them different so each can shine in some way.
                          Like someone said before it dosent matter that much but there is a difference.
                          It kinda sounds like you get picked on for playing Taru DD, I have no problem with it i think that Taru mnks are pretty cool. The differences are on paper. If everything was the same than everything would be the same and we could just argue about equipment.
                          I'm Elvaan and I would love to play a Taru DD!

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                          • #14
                            Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                            Its a comparison and Yes, that is what I am saying.

                            You have different gear because in reality not everyone has the same gear or is capable of obtaining the same gear.

                            But you know what, just go out there and try it yourself. I'm not sure youre level of experience but if you'd stop looking at 'whats on paper' and go out there and experience it yourself, you'd really realize that its not as huge of a difference if any at all.

                            Elvaan can't cure just as well as a taru. Are you joking? Do you know how easy it is to boost MP? added with a minimum of +5mp refresh these days and hMP gear a whm having 1500mp and 1200mp isnt going to be significantly better.

                            but I guess on paper it looks good right?
                            Last edited by Omni; 11-30-2007, 10:36 AM.
                            Omni@Remora: NIN75 RNG75 MNK75 COR75 BST64 BRD53
                            ♪♫ San d'Oria Complete ♪♫ ZM Complete ♪♫ CoP Complete ♪♫ AM Complete ♪♫

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                            • #15
                              Re: What's in a face: An honest look at the racial difference issue.

                              If absolute, raw output were the only thing that mattered, and all other mechanics (gear, food, etc.) were equal, and the players were both about the same skill and knowledge level, then race would matter.

                              But the number of situations where all of that is true is pretty small. Especially when you factor in whether one player is more pleasant to interact with than another. And if you're obsessing over racial stat differences, you're probably not that pleasant to interact with.

                              Yes, the stats can have some impact on raw output. In some cases, that difference can even be noticeable to the naked eye. But it's so amazingly rare for that difference to be the overriding factor in the decision for anyone worth your time, that the entire conversation can effectively be dismissed.
                              Ellipses on Fenrir
                              There is no rush. If you're not willing to take your time, don't be surprised when no one wants to give you much of theirs.
                              ,
                              . . .

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