A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

And how is the drawback on Velocity Shot in any way really detrimental to a RNG in most scenarios? (Barring things like K Club for WS spam and soloing)

Awesome job at answering your own question. If you don't want the penalty, don't use Velocity Shot. If you're using K. Club or Ridill you would be crazy to use Velocity shot. Its just a means of preventing you from having the benefits of Haste and velocity shot at the same time.

RNG don't come to events to swing their cute little daggers/axes. They come to blow shit away.

But there are cheapass RNGs that would have tried to melee for TP in EXP PTs to save money. Tell me you haven't met one in the infinite possibilities of terrible pick-up groups you could have. This was also meant to further encourage RNgs to use the sweet spots.

[Vyuru]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Correct me if I'm wrong but if anyone can do the synths that means they must be Level 10 or under in their respective crafts.

It seems to me that in general, these synths that are low level and are meant for everyone to do, like the chocolate heart one for instance, don't require much skill but do have a slightly higher chance to fail the synth than other standard synths. So I'd be inclined to say that this new synth may have a little higher chance to fail than another normal synth, but it sounds on par with the others of it's kind.

Now it could be a bunch of other things too. It could be people trying to synth with 0 skill, or on a day that isn't conducive towards crafting. I failed a decent number of synths lately too, but that was skillup synths on darksday, so it is to be expected. I haven't had any huge critical failures since darksday either.

And it could be perception. People hear about other people failing this new synth, they fail a synth, for whatever reason, and blame SE because "Now all synths are failing!" I'm more inclined to believe this myself for a couple of reasons. The first being that people speculate and get swayed/misled easily, see any Economic book for examples of that, I think it was called the Speculator's Market, or something like that. The second is I've just done a bunch of skillup crafting and profit crafting, and my synths are working like normal.

And I will say that it kinda sucks to break a synth, but so what? You can easily go out and regather the ingredients and try again. If this was a lvl 100 synth, then I would be saying that was seriously screwed up, but it isn't and so I am not. Anyone can do this synth, making it rather fair.

While I can see some people's complaints on breaking this synth, alot of other people's complaints sound more like crying because they can't have their item now like a little kid. It also helps if you give a reason why you think it shouldn't be this way, rather than saying something like WTF SE?

Avatar's Favor is pretty nice, but I have to question SE's reasoning behind some of the drawbacks to the ability. The -2 perp was awesome, gimping avatar DoT and BP damage by 15% and not including the avatars in the AoE buff was not.

So, exchanging Avatar damage to enhance party damage is a bad thing? There has to be some checks and balances to the game Mal, no one job can have it all.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Awesome job at answering your own question. If you don't want the penalty, don't use Velocity Shot. If you're using K. Club or Ridill you would be crazy to use Velocity shot. Its just a means of preventing you from having the benefits of Haste and velocity shot at the same time.

You evaded his point. The trade off doesn't make much sense on the SMN. They don't perform anywhere near the damage on par of a RNG or WAR or any other melee char in the game. Since those jobs do so much damage, they deserve trade offs. SMN didn't. SMN's are general, slow spikers with some moderate DoT. You know this good and well from our obvious party invites where someone says "GET THE SMN FOR DD, NOT THE RNG." /sar The comparisons are not similar. SMNS do not perform this unbalanced amount of damage that necessitated a reason for lowering their damage by 15%. I thought that was ridiculous, but everyone knows how SE likes to be conservative.

[Malacite]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

More over, my point was Velocity shot isn't even a drawback at all unless you are a K Club RNG. Meleeing for TP without a multi-hit weapon is counter-productive on RNG for a number of reasons that I'm sure I don't have to explain to you.

SMN on the other hand, takes a very real performance hit when the whole fucking point of this JA was to help keep avatars out. We finally get what we've been asking for for years and SE cockslaps us with a hidden damage nerf. At least VS tells you upfront your melee is going to get gimped (again, not that it ever really matters for any RNG in a party with half a brain)

[Armando]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

If SMN's damage is as shitty as you guys imply then SMN lost 15% of a small thing in order to boost party performance a lot.

Also you're not taking into account that you'll be squeezing out some extra damage just from having the avatar standing there smacking the mob, something you wouldn't do otherwise. And depending on the pacts you're using, you might get extra damage from the TP you'll accumulate too.

Bottom line: The buffs SMN can now offer are awesome. Also Mal is never happy anyways.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Let me repeat myself, "TODAY MY SMN GOT INVITED OVER A RNG, THANK Goodness SE balanced out my damage and gave me a 15% decrease so I couldn't put all RNGS, SAMs, Wars, etc out of a job anywhere."

It's a nusiance. I still love the job and want to play it. I just think the irony is something to be considered.

[Armando]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Ironic? Perhaps. But anyone who thinks BRD is the job that brings the least damage to the table just because parsers credit them with 0% is high. What a BRD does for your party's damage output is more than what you can get by inviting yet another DD.

Repeat yourself all you want. If only arguments could be won that way.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

When the job is already only available to perform a niche role that allows you to mainly own a Masters in supporting role in a party and a Minor in Flashy DMG, why would there be some significant need to ensure that the SMN didn't perform the same amount of damage it was always doing while allowing it to have its avatar out, lessening the burden of keeping the mob out, so that in some fashion the fabric of the space/time continuem of balanced game play itself wouldn't be ripped to shreds?

I've seen Garuda get spammed and Diabolos get spammed every 50 seconds for their proverbial WS/Magic attack. I don't ever see them produce the vicious numbers that other jobs can and in such short amounts of time. And, I mentioned this before, maybe arguments are won by reading and fully grasping what someone is saying, that keepin the avatar out is not a significant source of damage that is on par with other high end DD jobs.

Therefore, given the fact that the SMN isn't this mass hate producing job that can outshine the current status-quo.... what is hitting them with the nerf stick going to do to keep the SMN from being some sort of omgwtfbbqlolhalpusfromthisoverpoweredmess?

It's simple. Provide some better reasons why the SMN would/is unbalanced that makes sense and I'll happily sway to your thinkings direction. I just feel sorry that SMN has always been that one kid that took so much damn work to raise, but always got told, "later dear.... we're coming to you." lol I mean, I quit the job with a lackluster amount of faith, but have now come back to it.

The nerf stick is just a nuisance. I mean, 15% is not a lot, but its like shanking someone under the table when they aren't looking. Whatever, it is what it is.

Oh yah, tested the Double Attack/Warcry Spam. I switched to Diabolos and party refresh. It wasn't as stellar as I had hoped.

[Vyuru]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

So yeah...

Breezed through all of the synths without a single break, and HQ'd my Poison Enfeeblement Kit. Either I got lucky or people need to QQ more.

SMNS do not perform this unbalanced amount of damage that necessitated a reason for lowering their damage by 15%.

Double Attack to the party begs to disagree though. Some of those buffs are potent enough that they really should have some kind of negative effect to the avatar.

[Malacite]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Double Attack to the party begs to disagree though. Some of those buffs are potent enough that they really should have some kind of negative effect to the avatar.

I might agree with this, if the buff affected the avatars as well. Getting a DA proc on Flaming Crush would just be soooo sexy >.>b


But it's not like these are all epic, game-breakingly good buffs. Diabolos & Ifrit are certainly nice but still not on the level of a COR or BRD. It's more like SMN has become a slightly more acceptable substitute rather than a full-on replacement.

[Armando]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Oh yah, tested the Double Attack/Warcry Spam.

Numbers? If you were just eyeballing your assessment isn't trustworthy.*

I might agree with this, if the buff affected the avatars as well. Getting a DA proc on Flaming Crush would just be soooo sexy >.>b

This coming from someone that's obsessed with crit builds...If SMN's damage is so mediocre already, DA won't save Ifrit. And let's face it, you don't give a fuck if Garuda gets Evasion up, Diabolos gets Refresh, or Titan gets Defense up.

But it's not like these are all epic, game-breakingly good buffs. Diabolos & Ifrit are certainly nice but still not on the level of a COR or BRD.

Excuse me?

*Before you get uppity, please note that I hold myself to the very same standard. Eyeballs don't do math.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

They don't need to be "on the level" of COR and BRD, since they can already stack other buffs from pacts with Favors.

Then again, this is Malacite we're talking about, if its not grossly overpowered, its always going to fall short of his expectations.

Let me repeat myself, "TODAY MY SMN GOT INVITED OVER A RNG,

Please Note: SMNs and RNGs aren't invited for the same things. RNG isn't exactly known for its support skills, though acid bolts are certainly nice. What it is known for is quick, brutal spike damage. Quicker than banking on a two hour, to boot.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

And go cry in a corner YM.

Someone tell me I'm not the only one who sees the irony in this.

[Ketaru]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Why do some of you insist on turning every thread into a thread about SMN?

Let me repeat myself, "TODAY MY SMN GOT INVITED OVER A RNG, THANK Goodness SE balanced out my damage and gave me a 15% decrease so I couldn't put all RNGS, SAMs, Wars, etc out of a job anywhere."

See, this is the thing right here. SMNs keep wanting to be invited to be DDs. I can tell you as a SCH, and as I'm sure many BLMs can testify, that so long as your primary means of dealing damage is MP dependent, it's never going to happen. RDM and WHM got melee updates, they're just not practical in traditional EXP parties to the chagrin of many. My God, everybody seems to want to be a DD in EXP parties!

even Alla Beastmasters saw the good that was in this update, if Ketaru is to be believed.

Only at a glance. I only saw one drawback so far and that is that they removed Baleful Gaze from Coldblood Como. Part of me wants to admit that Petrify on demand is probably overpowered. I would've loved it for the "Look what my job can do that you can't, nyeh nyeh" factor though. (by the way, I haven't been to Allakhazam in a few days, but I have every bit of confidence somebody there is still complaining about this)

Otherwhys, I don't even know if Sic recast merits affect Ready. It seems to me like jug pets can now use abilities so long as they're at 100 TP and have the appropriate level of charges. And since it takes approximately 1 minute for pets to even get 100 TP, it looks like, at the very least, jug pet can use their 1 charge attacks to our heart's content, with the higher level stuff coming in to cover for any downtime experienced, or if you would like to inflict a debuff.

I approve of Ready. The Alla BSTs grieved over this because, under the old system, at least the pet would randomly use its higher level attacks in place of its lower level ones. Much like what's going on in this thread now, every time a job gets updated, everybody immediately jumps at it with fears like "But what about my damage?!", like when THF got those hate stealing abilities. Maybe it's because I'm approaching this from the standpoint of a RDM, but versatility is not versatility to me unless you can actually control it, even if you have to wait a little longer for it.

[Malacite]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Walkthrough

Who's talking about over powering SMN?

You don't give a homeless person some money or fresh food and then kick 'em in the Ribs - which is what SE's done here IMO.


Let's just do a few quick comparisons here;

Ifrit's Favor: It's a nice buff, but now you're bleeding MP (worse still if you're using pacts and curing) and feeding the mob TP for even more mediocre damage than before. Having a consistent buff is nice and all, but if you have a WAR in the party the COR can just toss out Fighter's Roll for the same effect hassle-free (barring any busts). I wouldn't even dare to compare this to 2x Minuet or March.

Diabolos' Favor: Not much to gripe about here surprisingly. Reduced Nether Blast damage really sucks, but the potential 4 MP/tic is pretty crazy.

Shiva's Favor: And this is again where how they implemented this sucks. If Shiva at least got her own buff and/or wasn't gimped by the favor, we could have finally justified keeping her out to gain TP and wail on NMs with Heavenly Strike. She could have easily been the best nuking avatar, but SE took care of that real good.

Keep in mind when I say mediocre damage, I'm referring strictly to avatar melee and a few of the lower level pacts. The only thing with the 65+ pacts is they spend around the same or a bit more than a BLM does for OK damage. The whole hate-free concept is not that big a deal in most cases either (most! not all) if you've got a good tank party.