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End game TP burns and ninja subs.

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  • End game TP burns and ninja subs.

    Do you have any plans to nerf the massive NIN subbing going on in merit TP burn parties? I see this behaviour as game mechanic abuse that makes tank characters completely useless.


  • #2
    Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

    I raised a similar kind of discussion here.

    General consensus was it should remain, however, I still stand by the fact Utsusemi: Ichi should be sufficient buffer for the, "Oh shit, I pulled hate!" moments.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

      PLD can TP burn just fine.
      Read my blog.
      ffxibrp.livejournal.com
      Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
      Entry 32: Death to Castro

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

        Originally posted by Legal Fish
        PLD can TP burn just fine.
        Just fine doesn't cut it in a world where people want the best they can find. Why take someone who can do it "just fine" when you can take WAR/NIN (or almost any other melee) and get more exp?

        I'm sure anyone who isn't a WAR/NIN would feel bad for always being "that guy they had to take because there were no WAR/NINs seeking". This is especially bad for tank jobs (PLD) because no matter how much you try to build it towards DD, it's still a tank job and will not beat real DDs.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

          This is the kind of party which is probably best set up within your own linkshell - I have done this, getting 10k an hour without really pushing the boat out, with pld/nin and god knows who else.


          Originally posted by Aksannyi
          "As a RDM, it should irk you to the depths of your soul when a mob had the audacity to buff itself in front of you."

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

            Originally posted by Maju
            Just fine doesn't cut it in a world where people want the best they can find. Why take someone who can do it "just fine" when you can take WAR/NIN (or almost any other melee) and get more exp?

            I'm sure anyone who isn't a WAR/NIN would feel bad for always being "that guy they had to take because there were no WAR/NINs seeking". This is especially bad for tank jobs (PLD) because no matter how much you try to build it towards DD, it's still a tank job and will not beat real DDs.
            Right, have you ever seen PLD/NIN merit before? I speak from experience a "GOOD" PLD with smart gear can keep up with WAR and MNK. PLD are notorious for being very poor played through all level ranges, so its easy to imagine only the ones that have skill can adapt at 75.
            Read my blog.
            ffxibrp.livejournal.com
            Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
            Entry 32: Death to Castro

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

              Originally posted by Legal Fish
              Right, have you ever seen PLD/NIN merit before? I speak from experience a "GOOD" PLD with smart gear can keep up with WAR and MNK. PLD are notorious for being very poor played through all level ranges, so its easy to imagine only the ones that have skill can adapt at 75.
              As far as I know, raw stats have nothing to do with skill. What PLD has is A+ in swords and that's it. Inferior STR to at least WAR and probably MNK. No traits that help in damage dealing. No JAs that help in damage dealing. No spells that help in damage dealing. As far I can see, a PLD would have to be better equipped than another melee to beat them in damage output.

              WAR is so good because it can keep the awesome WAR abilities and traits while subbing NIN. All other melees who are also required to sub NIN (PLD included) suffer a damage loss because they can't sub WAR.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                You don't seem to be listening.

                While a very good or good equiped WAR and good equiped MNK will not usually be out damaged by a PLD/NIN, it is possible for them to be DD, it has been doned, it is used a lot, and this is not a debate. PLD/NIN can handle its own with a smart player behind the character. Look on end-game blogs to see parses and such information if you need some help getting started on being a PLD DD.
                Read my blog.
                ffxibrp.livejournal.com
                Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
                Entry 32: Death to Castro

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                  Originally posted by Legal Fish
                  You don't seem to be listening.

                  While a very good or good equiped WAR and good equiped MNK will not usually be out damaged by a PLD/NIN, it is possible for them to be DD, it has been doned, it is used a lot, and this is not a debate. PLD/NIN can handle its own with a smart player behind the character. Look on end-game blogs to see parses and such information if you need some help getting started on being a PLD DD.
                  Do you know much that would cost a PLD? Not all of us are rich. First off there are two sets of armor you would have to buy. One for Melee and one for tanking. I'm talking evry single piece of gear you have has to be different. Why should we have to spend extra to satisfy everyone elses comfy TP burn parties?

                  PLD = Tank
                  PLD =/= DD
                  "Oh, you ca'n't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're Mad."
                  "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
                  "You must be", said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

                  Welcome to Alice in FFXI =P

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                    if a pld wants to spend $$$$$$$$$ to get the best gear to DD, im sure pld/nin in tp burn pts would b just fine. but it would b a bit trickier to get pts imo
                    www.sockbaby.com

                    Gaze upon its glory.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                      As a level 56, why are you even commenting on PLD DD in Merit Burn parties? or Merit Burn parties? or Merit parties?
                      Read my blog.
                      ffxibrp.livejournal.com
                      Currently: Entry #32, August 31/07.
                      Entry 32: Death to Castro

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                        Originally posted by Legal Fish
                        You don't seem to be listening.
                        Originally posted by Maju
                        Just fine doesn't cut it in a world where people want the best they can find. Why take someone who can do it "just fine" when you can take WAR/NIN (or almost any other melee) and get more exp?
                        I think Maju understands the point you're trying to get across but the fact remains a Paladin DD is always going to be last in line in PUGs. And, why should they be forced to DD when their raison d'etre is tanking? I can understand the whole burn culture but I view it as a weakness in the system that needs fixing and making Utsusemi: Ni level 38 or above is the quickest and simplest way to do it currently.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                          Originally posted by Legal Fish
                          As a level 56, why are you even commenting on PLD DD in Merit Burn parties? or Merit Burn parties? or Merit parties?
                          Yes, actually. I've done my research. Before I even chose the Paladin job I did as much reading as I could. I know pretty much everything about PLD at all levels. Even those beyond my own.

                          I know how my job works, I know whats to come, I know what I want.

                          Yes, if you're implying that experiance is greater than study then I would have to agree. But guess what? I don't want to have to switch to ninja sub. I'm here to tank, not be a DD. I'll pry have to do it, agreed, but I will bitch about it the entire time. Wanna know why? I've said it before. I'm a tank, not a DD.

                          And another thing, don't feed me the whole "I'm a higher level than you, therefore I know more." bull. I won't eat it.
                          "Oh, you ca'n't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're Mad."
                          "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
                          "You must be", said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

                          Welcome to Alice in FFXI =P

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                            Originally posted by Grizzlebeard
                            I think Maju understands the point you're trying to get across but the fact remains a Paladin DD is always going to be last in line in PUGs. And, why should they be forced to DD when their raison d'etre is tanking? I can understand the whole burn culture but I view it as a weakness in the system that needs fixing and making Utsusemi: Ni level 38 or above is the quickest and simplest way to do it currently.
                            I'd LOVE to see what would happen if SE did that. So many things would be thrown out of whack, but I think they know we depend on it too much for them to change it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: End game TP burns and ninja subs.

                              Originally posted by Maju
                              As far as I know, raw stats have nothing to do with skill. What PLD has is A+ in swords and that's it. Inferior STR to at least WAR and probably MNK. No traits that help in damage dealing. No JAs that help in damage dealing. No spells that help in damage dealing. As far I can see, a PLD would have to be better equipped than another melee to beat them in damage output.

                              WAR is so good because it can keep the awesome WAR abilities and traits while subbing NIN. All other melees who are also required to sub NIN (PLD included) suffer a damage loss because they can't sub WAR.
                              WAR, DRK and PLD all have the same STR base stats A-rated for all of them (a PLD/WAR even has higher STR then a WAR/NIN at the same level without merits).

                              And a PLD does have a higher STR then MNK, most gear used by WAR in TP-Burn (with the exception of Ridill, Earthen Abjuration and Hauberk + Thick) are also available to PLD so gear is not really an issue either.

                              Though PLD will be weaker then for example a WAR of course, but that is due to a WARs inheret abilities to DD no matter what he/she subs.
                              Keep in mind, sig might be outdated I just update it a few times per week.
                              Signature with the usual levels and obtained stuff etc. . .

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