A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

[LilithAngel]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Conserve TP ? I think they meant to say Store TP?

...aren't most movement items 15%?

No. They did indeed mean Conserve TP. Probably a new trait being introduced. May or may not work for Weapon Skills, but I believe it's more for helping Dancer and /DNC with TP costs for the abilities (which would be incredibly welcome). Paired with the Waltz cost reduction, could stretch out that TP bar a lot.

All movement speed gear give 12%. Except this piece. Which Dancer can use to reach +33% base movement speed (uber nice). That right there is almost enough for me to want the fugly side leg metal plate pants.

[Kailea]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

nice... if I gave this to my DRG, I could get another 2% in DA, that would give me 6% total, without /WAR mmmmmm

I could go back to trying my HAste build on DRG again, and get Haste/DA or....give this item to my PUP, and get repair+/pet: Macc ...mmmmmm^.^

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

They very obviously don't want the sort of content found in these mini-expansions either, so you're getting nowhere with that argument. And while people did whine about CoP's unrelenting difficulty, they didn't call it garbage or reject it outright.

Missed this response (I was laughing too hard at the distort-a-thon Zeiro posted).

Those people that didn't like this approach either really don't know what they want at all.

I wasn't a big fan of getting rid of dungeons altogether, but ToAU had a lot of good ideas - zones were just a Runic Portal away, there were hardly any menial timesinks designed purely to stretch out the plot artificially, and many of the early fights could be done with 3 or 4 people, but the difficulty of the BCs ramped up quickly to CoP-like levels. It was condensed plot, no bullshit in between. (Following your logic, since no one complained about ToAU missions, they should've followed this model.)

Removing the journey is a critical error in any RPG and people not only called ToA on that, but its tremendous lack of challenge. Nothing got challenging until the last three BCNMs, the rest you would have to be an idiot to fuck up (and people still managed to fuck up somehow). Runic Portals was Step 1 in the expansion and took a lot away from the journey, not to mention made certain merit mobs far too accessible.

A lot of the "menial" parts of CoP were stuff players could easily solo before preparing for the BCNM, with a handful of exceptions where you should journey together for NMs or farming, if that. All it took was one lazy, unprepared player to bring down the rest of the group.

And this wasn't a annoyance exclusive to CoP, but Rank Missions as well. Of course, this was easily remedied by removing such idiots from your static group. You could give a person a week's notice before the BC to get these things done they'd blow it all on meriting then try to catch up the half-hour before we were supposed to do the BC. That's not really a design problem on SE's end, that's just someone being stupid.

I've had WARs that fell asleep at the BC entrance to the Mithran Trackers because they stayed up late and partied the night before. SMNs that showed up for Mammets with no gear. I've spoken of the horrors before and its all rooted in human stupidity, not game design.

Even in ToA and WotG, give six people a chance to get to an early mission BC and one of them will always die in transit somehow. I can't even begin to imagine how someone fucks up in Davoi/La Vaule and gets seen. I don't know how you can get spotted by either imp from Dvucca Isle Staging point to The Ashu Talif, but somehow people manage to.

By eliminating most of "the journey" they also removed a lot of attention to preparation.

When CoPs are undertaken by a static - for all the menial elements it might have - it tempers and forges a stronger, more dedicated, prepared group the further they go. As a result, every battle won is a real accomplishment.

CoP was a drill instructor, ToA and the missions that follow are more like a substitute teacher. One is going to put everyone through the gauntlet, the other is going to pander to the slackers til the day is over.

The expansion chapters aren't even pandering to slackers, they give the slackers passable, but substandard rewards. They are great rewards only if you don't have the time or don't give a damn about ramming your head upside the endgame wall.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

The only difference is you know the reward in advance and it isn't strung out over the course of several updates.

Horseshit.

Other MMOs don't release their loot tables prior to expansion launch. People play them to be challenged and to enjoy new and fresh content. Loot is a progression mechanism, the acquisition of which is used to artificially prolong the expansion's lifespan.

These add-ons released the loot for one reason, to sell the product, because, as the majority of people will testify, the storyline is lacklustre at best. As for saying these items aren't as potent as endgame gear that statement is blatantly false. While they may be situational, such as macroing in for weapon skills, they are best in slot for many jobs. The mirke body as a ws piece for corsair simply can't be beaten.

[Armando]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Those people that didn't like this approach either really don't know what they want at all.

What a cop out excuse. I mean, I find it questionable that you insist SE is mainly going by whatever people tell them they want, but it sure is convenient to say stuff like this when cornered. The problem is, of course, that you imply that half the forum doesn't know what they want. And half of our forum isn't composed of idiots.

A lot of the "menial" parts of CoP were

When I said "menial" I was mainly talking about the Add-ons. CoP did send you on some pretty ridiculous goose chances but nothing was quite like "do HELM in 3 corners of the world."

I've spoken of the horrors before and its all rooted in human stupidity, not game design.

The dungeons were still too far and took too long. Not even a static can do Promy-Vazhl in 2 hours, for example. The missions in Chapter 8 were ludicrous and you couldn't save progress. I don't agree with removing dungeons altogether but the travel+dungeon time shouldn't exceed much more than 1 hour. Want a long dungeon? Let players reach it easily. Want a remote location for the dungeon? Don't make the dungeon take 1 hour on top of that. CoP was closer to "just right" than most expansions but it was still too extreme and while imbeciles aggravate the time sinks, there's just no goddamned way to blitz through a CoP mission in an hour even if you know what you're doing.

They are great rewards only if you don't have the time or don't give a damn about ramming your head upside the endgame wall.

PLD-style Nuevo Cosolete says hi. AMK WS helmet or OHat+WTurban+Attack helmet says hi. ASA rewards say hi too.

Also damn I'm not trying to use an attack against your person as a crutch for my argument but you really need to work on posting concisely instead of writing essays. It's pretty taxing to see 4-5 paragraphs devoted to a single point every single time.

Anyways: WHOOHOO FAST PANTS THAT DON'T COME FROM SKY.

[Ziero]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

And you claim I'm the one that distorts stuff?

CoP was filled with CS missions that literally sent you from one corner of the world to another just to get two lines of text that have nothing to do with any actual fights. It's a massive amount of globetrotting with a lot of speed bump fights that have absolutely nothing to do with the story.

ToAU stream lined the mission process, removed a lot of pointless travel and farming, took away the level caps but still managed to make it so the fights got progressively harder. On top of that, every single fight in it, even the Quasi Lamia Assault mission, had a direct and important impact on the story. The only thing I've ever heard negative about the ToAU missions were the JP midnight waits.

Traveling through an area filled with monsters doesn't remove anything but travel time. When compared to RotZ and CoP, where they had missions where you were literally crossing the globe left and right for tiny CS, ToAU let you get right into the meat of the mission and the heart of the fights. I'll admit that the Promy climbs used to be fun because of that element of danger, but that was pretty much the only missions to ever have that feel to them. Riverene, Pso Xja, Uleguerand, those blasted sea tower climbs, they were not fun. They were long, boring, tedious time sinks added to CoP to make it seem longer then it was. Getting away from that so players could actually play the game, instead of spending 3 hours walking around, was a vast improvement they made with the last two expansions.

While in your experiences CoPs unneeded time sinks make parties "stronger", in mine they only grate at people and make it harder to find those who are willing to repeat those missions.

But they went right back to that time sink with these current missions, and actually made them worse. And there's no defending that. They've made massive progress in how stories are told, fights are set up, CSs are played out and the missions are presented in the past two expansions. But with the Mini-expansions they managed to take three steps backwards bringing back a RotZ era of game play that is far from enjoyable when compared to modern standards. And all for some brand new shinys.

I know far more people who are willing to repeat the last ToAU fight for nothing then they are to willingly climb Delkfutts and do the last ACP fight. I can take a party of Whm, Blm, Pld, War, Thf, Drg and beat the crap out of Promethia, but if I fought the damn crystal with that set up we'd be wiped in less then 5 minutes.

But hey, if you think paying 10 bucks to farm level 12 mobs while running to every corner of the world and then fight two BCNMs, one which is pretty damn easy and the other which is ridiculously cheap, then be my guest.

Those people that didn't like this approach either really don't know what they want at all

I'm also loling at this comment. So apparently anyone who agrees with you is completely correct and anyone who disagrees with you, despite being a large amount of players, "don't know what they want".

I can tell you for a fact that I don't agree with the way these mini-expansions are set up but I *do* know exactly what I want. I want a strong, engaging story line featuring multiple (re. more then two), increasingly difficult yet interesting BC fights that directly assist to move the story forward while it cuts out useless fetch quests and time sinks from the main mission. Any actual fetch quests or time sinks could instead be used as side quests which could be completed once a week to allow you to repeat said BCNMs for tangible rewards (such as the treasure box system) to add replayability to the expansion. All of which, mind you, would be able to be beaten using a pretty basic party set up of tank, healer, support x3 DD of any flavor.

It's not hard to do, and it's not asking a lot. I'm not asking for new zones, new jobs or even new mobs. I'm asking for a mini-expansion that I'm paying for to actually contain fun and engaging content, not time sinks and frustratingly cheap boss fights.

But apparently, since I disagree with you, I "don't know what I want".

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

I kinda let SE slide when they started charging the 10$ per expansion. But when I heard they were releasing eveyrthing for $20, that really chapped my hide.

It's rather rude of them to do this as a company, but sadly, it's well executed marketing strategy. The people that have spent so much time in the game will find the stats attractive on the "dangled carrot" that are somewhat similar to in game hard earned items, they'll be impressed to get them; the people that enjoy the game and are die hard ff fans (or fanboys) and get everything will still buy this; the people that like to craft love the Mog Satchel, not to mention people that play numerous, multiple jobs, they got the Token........... SE is making a quick fast buck off our addiction. lol That's just rude!

The only way to tell them to piss off is not to buy certain things and protest. But then you're left watching everyone else have things and what not, so you're left out. Well, SE is certainly being an A-hole to us the consumer base. Thus begins the love/hate relationship.

While I think some of the views about Pro-Expacs/Anti-Expacs are good on both sides, I'm not jumping on a bandwagon and saying that I hated CoP. I actually loved it. It was difficult and challenging, but mostly because the people you got to do the mission with you were moronic. Still yet, the storyline was memorable and romantic in all senses of the FF genre and the items were wonderful at the end. But all that content and the price you pay sure doesn't seem quite fair when you compare it to the new Expacs.

However, I'm not bandwagoning that I hated the Expacs either. They were fun. I like BC's. Sure, that walk up the tower was retarded, but whatever. I didn't lose my mind over it. However, I actually have trouble finding anyone to go do the Mog Expac because everyone's scared of the battles haha. Lots of people didn't buy it either, I'm assuming. You certainly do not see shouts about it; not nearly as much as you did for ACP. So maybe SE felt the financial sting? Who knows...

I find it funny that these so much vehement aruging going on about this topic though. It's bordering on the whole attitude of "I hate this game but I'm still playing it and paying my monthly fee" mentality. I'm finding that rather sophmoric. Oh well... I really don't like having to pay out to SE, but, because I'm such a fan of the genre and MMO's, I'm doing it. I guess that's where I'm finding my worth at. This whole concept depends on your perception (which is your reality) I suppose.

I still think its funny that these forums are the only one's I've remotely read anything close to asking that avatars have blessings or auras on them and lo and behold, they are being implemented in the next update. That really made me lawl.

[Mog]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Too bad equipment movement speed doesn't stack. Would be really sweet to go with gaiters on my blm;

Nonetheless though, 8% movement speed is pretty comparable to the already existing 12%. Guess we'll be seeing a lot more people soloing stuff.

[hexx]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

I for one enjoyed the quests and fights of the past two mini-expansions, sure they were somewhat tedious, but they gave me something to do while waiting for other events to start. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I'm gonna be buying this expansion, along with anything else they bring out.

I mean hell, these expansions take no more than a day or two to finish, and after doing the fights several times for friends and myself (tossed old coselete in favor of a better one for pld) they have gotten easier and easier.......some people are just being extremely negative here.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Will 8% running speed still help while kiting Kirin? I mean, does he run so fast that not having w.legs but your job's pants with 8% on them keep you from getting by without w.legs?

All I know is everyone camps sky for three reasons: KO, haidate and w.legs. According to SKY lse's I've been that's the recurring theme. Sure the Zenith gear and maybe some of the shura gear is nice, but it's not as ground breaking as those three pieces of gear.

Just think, you can give up having to bust your ass for 3mos to 2years to get w.legs.....

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

What a cop out excuse. I mean, I find it questionable that you insist SE is mainly going by whatever people tell them they want, but it sure is convenient to say stuff like this when cornered. The problem is, of course, that you imply that half the forum doesn't know what they want. And half of our forum isn't composed of idiots.

And this forum doesn't even begin to project a world view of what players really want. You don't know what they really want any better than I do - we just know how we like it. What we do know is that every system SE releases that could be fun or challenging, players want to find an easy way out of.

PLD-style Nuevo Cosolete says hi. AMK WS helmet or OHat+WTurban+Attack helmet says hi. ASA rewards say hi too.

Don't know what point you're trying to make with that, but while most are adequate, they do not directly compete with endgame gear. You're happy enough with +3% Haste and that's fine, but its still not a Haidate. Its just the next best thing to taht or sea gear.

Also, Tuban was quested. Usable by all jobs, too. Its a good piece of gear, but its good for most jobs. Still isn't a mission reward. It was Rings for ToA.

Anyways: WHOOHOO FAST PANTS THAT DON'T COME FROM SKY.

So even after all your protesting the design of the expansion chapter, you're going to throw down $10 anyway just because it gets you out of sky?

Way to send SE the right message.

How's that for concise?

[Aksannyi]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Maybe he's saying WOOHOO FAST PANTS THAT DON'T COME FROM SKY as a way of saying that maybe some people who have been bitching about the abysmal drop rate of anything in that godforsaken shithole will be able to shut the fuck up for a few weeks.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

Maybe he's saying WOOHOO FAST PANTS THAT DON'T COME FROM SKY as a way of saying that maybe some people who have been bitching about the abysmal drop rate of anything in that godforsaken shithole will be able to shut the fuck up for a few weeks.

I don't think that's the case, given the zeal of the statement.

There were options for Haste in that slot before, neither were any quicker. This isn't the best, but it would be quicker than grinding Limbus or Ashu Talif for something comparable.

[hexx]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

So much angst towards this game from some people. As much as I hate sky (been doing sky for who knows how long) I'd still keep doing it if I could find a shell that fit my schedule. Problem with that is there is none on my server, and I honestly wont go jumping servers for one damn piece of gear (hell for any amount of gear really). This gives an alternative to w.legs, maybe not totally, but hey, I'll take 8% over 12% any day if it means I save some gil from buying a popset, or time spent up in sky.

[ruffrydasean]

Re: A Shantotto Ascension Rewards... Pre-Sale Going on Now

I still think its funny that these forums are the only one's I've remotely read anything close to asking that avatars have blessings or auras on them and lo and behold, they are being implemented in the next update. That really made me lawl.

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