Things you would like fixed on FFXI

[DakAttack]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

People wouldn't flood the market with the usual fare for skilling up if they could do the same repairing weapons and armor. If they can make it, they can repair it, and in the case of Rare/Ex item there might be an NPC, but that's still a little tricky.

Automating everything with NPCs takes out the face-to-face interactions.

[Vyuru]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

It should be noted that this is a system for something that I am working on, where the planned method of combat would roughly allow you to hit just about any part of your opponents body that you want to. Some things would probably have to be changed due to FFXI's combat system, since you can't just hit someone's hand for instance.

Even there I'm thinking of changing it though. I've been toying with the idea of instead of having individual armor health points that you work on individually (ex, people hit your body area alot, so only your body armor's health depletes) making the armor health count in total of all the pieces (head, body, hands, pants, feet) You get to choose what pieces you want and you get to customize your armor to look/be how you want it, but it's counted as an armor set which instead of individual armor hit points that degrade as they are individually hit, has a total amount that degrades regardless of where you are hit.

Dunno, still working on it.

What I'd like to see in terms of equipment degradation:

Weapons and gear have health points. In general they lose one point when armor is struck or when you hit something with your weapon.

Certain armors and weapons can "resist" losing health depending on the materials. For instance in general metal armors are more durable than cloth. Steel is better than bronze, and mythril is better than steel, they work in tiers like that. Same with various leathers and other things too.

Different weapons and armor will affect each other differently. For instance if you have some super hard abrasive armor, then it is going to take more health from the weapons that hit it. If however you have some high tier metal weapon, let's say mythril, it's more resistant to this effect. Basically an armor made with a higher tier of materials will have more of an effect on a lower tier, either in damage reduction, or armor/weapon health lost.

There would be some sort of balancing act that'd need to be carried out for the various kinds of weapons vs armor that I have not worked out yet. In general, piercing weapons are good at bypassing armor defense and dealing more damage to the person, while crushing weapons are good for reducing armor hit points.

Bows, crossbows, and guns also require maintenance, however at a lower rate than melee weapons do, which I think is fair since they pay to shoot ammo.


I think how I'd handle it is that broken weapons can only be fixed in town, possibly only at a blacksmith's shop. NPCs or crafters can do this. I'd also have some kind of ability that allows crafters to repair items in the field, as well as repair kits that noncrafters could use. There would be some kind of system in place so that, and using FFXI as an example, if you were a Blacksmith who could make Iron, but not Darksteel yet, you could repair Iron weapons and armor just fine, but either you wouldn't be able to fix Darksteel weapons and armor, or else you were less effective at repairing darksteel weapons and armor.

I might even consider that say your weapon has 500/500 hit points. You have it repaired in the field or in general reduces it's total hit points to 480/480 or something like that. If I have system like that, then there would be some option where if you take it to a crafter in town, or a blacksmith NPC in town (basically using the town facilities though) lets you get the weapon's hit points back to the 500/500. The main idea is that the more you rework something, the less durable it gets so I think you ought to lose some durability, but I also want to give players some way to regain that durability. It might involve bringing materials in to the blacksmith for the repair/patch job instead of just paying money for a repair, but something along those lines.

If a weapon or armor breaks, then it becomes unusable but still in your inventory, or else maybe it's still usable, but with an armor/damage rating of 1 or even 0.

For hideous amounts of gil or exp (my augment system was to use exp instead, like merits), you can get an coating on your weapon that will make it unbreakable, however this cannot be removed and you cannot enhance/augment your weapon/armor with this coating on anymore. So if you want an unbreakable kickass weapon you have to fully enhance/augment it first, then get the special coating. Once you have the coating, then no more changing the weapon or armor.

I'd have to dig up my notes to see if I'm forgetting anything, but I think that's roughly it.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

If the NPC price was fairly high, then it would encourage the players to do it. Much the same as we've suggested that they make Teleport NPCs, since sometimes there are just no players around to do it. Pay 5k (which is quite high) and you're on your way. Same concept here. Make the repairs 10k at the NPC, which gives players a chance to charge 1g-9999g and still save people money. And I'd guess that most players wouldn't charge that much for repairs. 5k is probably reasonable, maybe even less.

It would give a reason for crafters to level their craft, and on top of that, it would give them a bit of extra change so that they could gather materials for actual crafting.

I just have to say that I'd be really mad if my signed Aristocrat's got broken and I had to get rid of it. First of all, because the signer left the server, and this is my souvenir from her. Second of all, because they're expensive. Not exceptionally so, but enough to make a dent. I understand what you're saying, that you think items need to be taken out so that the prices can remain stable - or even recover, but the entire crafting system would have be overhauled in order for this to work, or people with a lot of HQ gear (like myself) or just nice signed stuff will be upset about the loss of these items. Something would have to change. And I'm not interested in NQing myself because there's no way to repair my high priced items that got broken and were left to be discarded.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

I think you missed my point, there doesn't need to be players that can fix weapons and armor when an NPC smithy could do the same thing. Weapons degrading would make players carry more of them so they'd last longer in combat, thus some weapons would eventually break and crafters would be able to sell more.

As FFXI's system stands, no crafted weapon or armor leaves the system unless the player NPCs it, so it just goes back on the AH in time with al the others that are recirculating, which brings the value down. If supply is high, but demand is too low, things become lesser in value. Prices have to drop for an overabundance of stock to move at all.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

Elder Scrolls probably had the most reasonable system of weapon degradation where if the condition of a weapon or piece of armour dropped to 0/100 it was still usable but you would lose all combat bonuses from it until it was repaired again.

Pretty much how it works in WoW. You can wear and look at the equipment but any and all bonuses from it are null when it's completely broken.

And breaking items and making them disappear completely? Better do away with HQs then, there is absolutely no way in hell I will purchase an HQ staff more than once. I'm all for giving the crafters a bone, but I can't afford that 3m every few months. In fact, I have a lot of HQ stuff. I worked my ass off, saved up, and bought all of it, knowing full well that I'd bought the best piece for that slot and that I wouldn't have to replace it again. And it took me a LONG FUCKING TIME to get my gear. I'm not going through that again.

Repairs yes. Broken and unusable but in inventory yes. Broken but goes poof? No.

[Firewind]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

Elder Scrolls probably had the most reasonable system of weapon degradation where if the condition of a weapon or piece of armour dropped to 0/100 it was still usable but you would lose all combat bonuses from it until it was repaired again.

[Armando]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

Is there really a need to have equipment degrade to the point of breaking without giving the option for repair though? For starters it doesn't make much sense, but setting that aside (since so many things never make sense), you would move a much larger amount of raw materials simply allowing weapons to be given maintenance indefinitely. I don't like the idea of my equipment being 100% temporary. I'd rather have, in the worst of cases, a break that essentially transforms the gear into a "-1" (think of the broken fake Bigoron Sword in Ocarina of Time. It's still in your inventory, and useable, though gimp.) I don't want to be bringing multiple sets of equipment just because, either - that's part of what I dislike about gear swapping in the first place!

Besides, if you make Hagun repairs require a costly ingot, then most people will avoid whipping out Hagun on a whim, and the rich will continue to recklessly hack everything down, keeping the value of the ingots up.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

Basic supply and demand. Because of just about everyone needing repairs on a regular basis, crafters can't charge me my dick, both my nuts, and one lung each time I need a repair. Players won't pay that much for something they'll have to do on a weekly basis. I would also assume that there would be enough competition among the crafters, since it would obviously be a quick and easy way to rake in profits without even having to synth an actual item and wait for it to sell; similar to Teletaxi-ing or offering Warp II's and Retraces. The NPC prices would also provide a hard ceiling for how much crafters can charge before player will ignore them.

Except there doesn't really need to be repairs from players to start with. Allowing everything outside of R/E to degrade to the point of breaking would already be selling extra weapons and armor to tanks and melee alike. As I illustrated with SAM, the "one and only" mentality behind Hagun would be crushed. Not only would they start looking to other GKs as a fallback, they'd look more seriously into using those bows and arrows. If your Hagun can degrade, then for long sessions you'd want to find ways to avoid whittling it down to nothing.

Tanks obviously would be bringing more than one kind set or armor or shields. Eventually some of this stuff is going to break and be lost, so crafters only stand to benefit from items that can be destroyed, just as they benefit from the consumables market.

I think this would be difficult to implement in FFXI, but not for FFXIV at this point.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

Well that's what I was saying, BBQ, is that they should make it a set amount that goes to the crafter based on the number of items they are fixing, and that they need to make a new "Repairs" window in which you place your items but the crafter can not remove them from the window. They'd need to safeguard it.

This is, of course, SE we are talking about, so I don't see it ever happening the way I've described.

---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 AM ----------

crafters can't charge me my dick, both my nuts, and one lung each time I need a repair.

[Armando]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

That's like saying allowing players to teleport each other for a fee is a horrible idea. Or comissioning a crafter for a fee is a horrible idea.

Basic supply and demand. Because of just about everyone needing repairs on a regular basis, crafters can't charge me my dick, both my nuts, and one lung each time I need a repair. Players won't pay that much for something they'll have to do on a weekly basis. I would also assume that there would be enough competition among the crafters, since it would obviously be a quick and easy way to rake in profits without even having to synth an actual item and wait for it to sell; similar to Teletaxi-ing or offering Warp II's and Retraces. The NPC prices would also provide a hard ceiling for how much crafters can charge before player will ignore them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

Allowing players to repair things is a pretty terrible idea, they'd end up charging more than the NPCs probably would. Or steal your stuff and sell it. Human nature leans to greed without something to keep it in check.

Remember the days when Haubys and Scorpion Harnesses were things you were wary to lend out? Yeah, that.

Only downside to the whole concept of repairs is it does give mages leverage when it comes to asking for money in order to be raised. They'd get the short end of the loot in PTs under such a system, so they have to make it up somewhere, even if it doesn't seem that noble.

[DakAttack]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

What kind of mechanic would be used to repair armor and weapons, and would it require materials? Probably a light crystal, and maybe a few ingots or pieces of cloth?

[Icemage]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

^
I don't have an issue with R/EX items not being able to break permanently, but for crafted items, I have no compunctions about making them permanently break and vanish. It'll force people to take better care of their gear and keep it repaired so they don't have those embarassing moments when their weapon breaks and they have nothing to bash that nasty fanged thing breathing down their necks, and it'll give the crafters a boost since it'll take items out of circulation which they can then make more of.


Icemage

[Aksannyi]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

I really like this idea, it would breathe an entirely new life into crafting, as long as items for repair are not steal-able in any way. Make a new type of trade window or something for repair purposes only. Hell, make it an automatic amount based on how many items a person needs repaired. (1 item? 100g, 2 items, 250g, etc.) It would add up. Don't give the players any power except the power to level their craft - say to like, 80, so people who are leveling crafts up to 60 only can't jump on that bandwagon for all eight crafts.

Make it so that stuff degrades slowly over time, make a new trade window that really functions in a similar way to the trade window, but does not give the option to complete trade - so that all repairs can be conducted while this window is open. The items NEVER EVER go into the hands of the crafter. EVER. That way, nothing ever gets stolen this way. Even R/E stuff can go into this repair-trade window and can be repaired but can not be traded.

They could implement this sort of system, but seriously if they made it so you actually trade your stuff to people expect a lot of "OMG Jerkfaceplayer stole my Cuchulain's Mantle" GM calls and threads on BG. DON'T FUCK IT UP SE.

As though they're listening and actually going to implement this. -.-

[Armando]

Re: Things you would like fixed on FFXI

The armor and weapon degradation seems like a fine and dandy idea in theory, except for one thing - suppose I farm all my weapons and armor to dust. I had better have had a pretty freaking good farming session if I'm expected to even function any more. Also, not all armor and weaponry is crafted - NM drops and AF immediately come to mind.

I'm sorry, but it would seem to be a terrible idea to put such a system in FFXI at this point in the game.

Simple solution: Make the mob's level a factor. Why would my armor degrade against mobs so weak I could kill 50 of them while AFK? Why would my weapon, for that matter, if I'm beating them senseless so easily?

In my opinion repairs should be done primarily by player crafters. There should be an option to have guild NPCs repair them, but at a steeper price.