How could cross-language communication be improved?

[Feba]

I was reading Phantasy Star Zero is PictoChat: The RPG - DS Fanboy , and it got me thinking; what else could be done to ease linguistic boundaries?

I think the idea of being able to send drawings as communication is great. It adds a touch of personality to writing that you don't see in plain text, but which you can usually only get with voice communications (which plenty of people don't enjoy for various reasons). It allows you to convey ideas without the need for words at all, so something being lost in translation (Think {Reward} or {support job} and such) isn't nearly as big of a problem. It would also allow you to convey ideas in a much more simple and possible even quicker manner than words would with people, even who speak the same language.

BRDs, for example. Let's say you need everyone to stand in a specific spot in order to function well. It can be hard enough to explain to people who speak the same language. Now imagine trying to convey that through the autotranslator. Now imagine simply drawing a diagram.

[Ellipses]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

Everyone understands a poorly-drawn penis.

It might be something of a resource-hog, but if you could (temporarily, obviously) graffiti-up the environment, that would be pretty helpful. Maybe being able to "stick" auto-translate labels/icons on things as well.

I can't imagine drawing a diagram quickly that would explain Ballad positioning without using words. If you could save a certain number of drawings to send out at will, get a nice little diagram drawn up that shows things with enough detail to differentiate it clearly, that might work.

[Feba]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

I can't imagine drawing a diagram quickly that would explain Ballad positioning without using words.

I can, and I'll prove it with GNUpaint!



Drawn in one minute. Probably more simplified than it is most of the time, but it works. It wouldn't take much more time to add to it. Saving images is also a good idea; especially if they're saved in a simple format so that people can share and trade their images (although it should probably be kept limited to black and white so that people don't transmit stupid image macros).

Drawing on the environment is a great idea, although I don't see how they'd implement it in FFXI, whereas a scratchpad would seem like a fairly simple addition (Windower could probably do it, in the same manner they did the mog house thing, but if you're using windower why not just make a separate program for it?)

[Ellipses]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

Touché!

I don't know that they'd even be able to get a scratch pad going on the PS2 (whole can of worms, opposite of yay), but it'd be a nice addition. Well, depending on the implementation details, of course. I need to be able to not see amateur mithra porn popping up every millisecond in Whitegate.

Of course, just beefing up the auto-translate dictionary would be really helpful, too. It's missing a lot of really basic phrases. And maybe making some things actually auto translate (obviously only phrases that don't have multiple meanings in each language; "may" would be a bad choice, "I don't speak any Japanese" should be pretty safe).

Edit: Actually, on that subject, being able to define certain bits of text to auto-translate/auto-expand would be nifty. Let me set it so that when I type "wb" it automatically replaces that with (Welcome back.)

[Neptus]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

Guildwars used this idea which worked Fantastic in the Arenas from what I remember.
Before a 4v4 match was started somebody would take charge and just draw the Default path on the mini map for us to take, then if something went wrong we would pull back regroup, and try another movement.

[Feba]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

Well, depending on the implementation details, of course. I need to be able to not see amateur mithra porn popping up every millisecond in Whitegate.

That is what blacklist and bans are for. But yes, it would need to have tight controls; same as other chat methods. Need to be able to turn it off (like shouts), block people (blacklist), turn it off for people outside your Party/Linkshell/Buddy List, and so on. And I don't think there would be any purpose to having it in public chat anyway; it should be limited to tell (for communicating before you join a party), party, and linkshell (for larger events primarily) channels.

[Jonastb]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

If everyone in the world spoke Pig Latin, there would be no more problems.

[Kyleet]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

It'd be nice if IME on an NA version of the game wasn't against the 'rules'. -.- Likewise, if all versions of the games supported inputting asian and cyrillic characters, without using a program that could get you in trouble, I think that could go a long way at least. People who understand a bit of the languages that use those characters could actually communicate back or translate for those that can't.

[Solymir]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

Has anyone put together a database of the auto translate phrases, and what they directly translate to? There have been some helpful posts in the past where people listed a few auto translate phrases and mentioned how they have been misused in the past. One that is always at the forfront of my mind is the phrase [Take care]. I used to think it meant "take care of yourself" and used it when disbanding a party or someone was signing off. Until I read the thread Looking for Members, that explained what it translated to. So if anyone knows of any other translation lists out there please list them for us.

I understand there are storage limits for the PS2, but if they could ad more common english phrases to the game I would appreciate it.

I really like the idea of being able to draw pictures.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

Has anyone put together a database of the auto translate phrases, and what they directly translate to?

Auto-Translator: In-Depth - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki

[Solymir]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

Ty YM, much appreciated.

[Raydeus]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

I like the Auto-translate function from XI, the problem is SE doesn't take it seriously.

A few things I'd change:

1) Increase the amount of phrases available (by a lot) and list them all on the official POL site with the exact translation in all languages.

2) IME and special characters from specific languages for all clients, with detailed character map/keyboard combination lists available on the site.

3) An exclusive Auto-translate request form on POL to make it easier to submit requests for new phrases.

4) A team of people dedicated to the autotranslation function who would handle and study requests and oversee that autotranslated phrases would be as unambiguous as possible. While taking care of updating and maintaining the Autotranslate database to improve performance and avoid it becoming too big while keeping it functional.

5) Improve the autotranslator interface so it's easier and faster to spot phrases, with customizable short-cuts for users to access their usual autotranslator categories faster.

6) Change the macro system so command lines and text lines are independant (alternatively simply increasing the number of macro lines).

7) Etc. Etc. I could be here for an hour but need to get some work done.

Edit >

This one is kinda important so I didn't want it to be forgotten.

7.1) An Auto-translator tutorial NPC who would teach new (and old) players how to use and costumize the Auto-translate function with a series of quests, with rewards to encourage players to take the time going through the tutorials.

(After reading about Jarre's experience with the new NPC I think that's a great way to teach people this kinda thing while making it also worth the time beyond the knowledge itself.)




7.1.1) I'd ask for the NPC to be a hot (Hume) (Scholar) (Woman) of course


...what? <_<;

[Losrase]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

That is what blacklist and bans are for. But yes, it would need to have tight controls; same as other chat methods. Need to be able to turn it off (like shouts), block people (blacklist), turn it off for people outside your Party/Linkshell/Buddy List, and so on. And I don't think there would be any purpose to having it in public chat anyway; it should be limited to tell (for communicating before you join a party), party, and linkshell (for larger events primarily) channels.

You could just make a menu option. Kind of like map option but a sub-button under the party option. Everyone in the pt/alliance needs to go to that option if they would like to see the map. When pressed, it will display an overhead snap shot(color cartoon drawing) to everyone in the pt/alliance of a square. The chat log will still be visible for people to talk to each other. There will be place holders with names of party members (like with the map option) for the planner (which can be passed person to person like the leader roll in a pt) to place on the map. Also there probably be place holders with names like {Boss #}, {Mini Boss #}, and {mob #}.

There could even be sub-options for current map, select map, and BCNM (only because nearly all of them have the same layout). Make it so the person needs to have the permanent key map item before they can view certain maps.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

7.1.1) I'd ask for the NPC to be a hot (Hume) (Scholar) (Woman) of course


...what? <_<;

It's like a little glimpse into what type of p0rn you'd find on Ray's computer...

[Vyuru]

Re: How could cross-language communication be improved?

It's like a little glimpse into what type of p0rn you'd find on Ray's computer...

Not really, I'm sure that all guys find that girls with glasses and skirts are sexy!

The Sch AF is among the better looking ones IMO >.>