Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

[Feba]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Well, in my world, criminals would be hooked into a matrix-like simulation where they'd be free to interact with others, but incapable of causing harm. Until we get direct-to-brain connections, this purpose could be served with something like Second Life or Home. I'm pretty sure I've covered this before, YM.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

So I mean, yeah, current system, not very effective.

Newer system, it's super effective?

[Feba]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Which is what I was saying Mhurron, penalties are not a deterrent. Either they can be educated and learn from their mistakes, and become part of society again, or they can't and they should be kept out of society (or at least off the roads)

A car on its own is not dangerous.

Hyperbole much? You've never once encountered someone who had trouble with their car due to mechanical failure?

And yes, a car's (along with many other things in life, drugs included) default state is dangerous. Like I said, a good driver can only make it safer; not more dangerous. Again, how many drunk college kids do you hear about having fatally stumbled into a tree? And when you look at a gun, do you think "This is perfectly safe."? We can all recognize that guns have practical, safe, and useful applications; but we also recognize that they are extremely dangerous and must be treated with care. Again, cars, drugs, sex, raw foods, pretty much anything regulated or banned by a government are also examples of this. Some things can be made safer by good judgment, but that doesn't mean that it is safe by default.

[Jarre]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

No, it very much is cars. They are very dangerous machines. While there is obviously the driver as a factor, the driver can only serve to make things safer than a car would be by itself. Luckily, with increases in AI, camera tracking, and computing power, the driver won't be part of the equation anymore. As unreliable as a computer driver may be, it's still a helluva lot better than a human. Plus it allows us to get rid of pesky things like glass and windows which have a tendency to cause problems in crashes.

I'm sorry feba I don't get your thinking here. A car is only as dangerous as the driver thats controlling it. If they are not in control of it due to either not paying attention, are under the influence of something etc etc. then the car becomes a dangerous object. A car needs a person to make it work, to move it etc. The driver is the only factor in 99% of all accidents.

A car on its own is not dangerous.

[Mhurron]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

When you're drunk, you don't care. The people who "can't stop" say one more won't make me that drunk, I'll still be good to drive safely. They don't think they're about to commit a crime so they don't care about the penalties either.

[Feba]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Tougher penalties? They didn't care about killing someone, so again, big deal.

Mm, in some ways. Personally, I view prison as being one of two things: A way to rehabilitate those who can be rehabilitated, and a way to keep those who can't from harming anyone else. Ignore things like terms, time served, good behavior. Run them like mental institutions (which really, anything which should be a crime would require some form of mental disorder anyway); you get out when you're damned good and ready, no sooner.

So I mean, yeah, current system, not very effective.

[Mhurron]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Doing something for the sake of doing something ALWAYS makes it worse.

Too many in the UK have a problem stopping drinking, the government can not change this.

Raise the drinking age? Who cares, under age drinkers already exist and do stupid things.
Tougher penalties? They didn't care about killing someone, so again, big deal.
Increase the cost? Moonshine. Cheap, effective, and more available as the costs of legal sources goes higher.
Ban supermarkets from selling alcohol? Ya, I mean you wouldn't believe the number of drunk idiots I tripped over on the way to work because every grocery store sells liquor ... oh wait.

Not a single one of those does a damn thing about the problem.

[Feba]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Try telling that to the families of the deceased.

Appeal to emotion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a big problem and it needs sorting out, wouldn't something to save lives be a good thing?

Sure, saving lives is good. Not at the expense of personal freedoms, however. Again, I could find a way to kill you with an Xbox controller. In fact, playing Halo might even get me angry enough to want to injure you. Should the government outlaw gamepads to save lives?

Or are you so concerned about your freedom to drink as much as you want and stumble into a car and hope to get home in one piece?

Are you reading what people are saying?

Again, nobody is debating that drunk driving is bad. Just that taking another step towards a nanny state is a bad thing.

Nobody has a problem with stricter laws and harsher punishments for drunk driving.

Its not the cars, its the drivers, and incidently that was another drunk driver.

No, it very much is cars. They are very dangerous machines. While there is obviously the driver as a factor, the driver can only serve to make things safer than a car would be by itself. Luckily, with increases in AI, camera tracking, and computing power, the driver won't be part of the equation anymore. As unreliable as a computer driver may be, it's still a helluva lot better than a human. Plus it allows us to get rid of pesky things like glass and windows which have a tendency to cause problems in crashes.

But anyway, if the car wasn't there for them to drive, the problem wouldn't be nearly as large. I mean, really, how many drunks manage to get themselves killed by stumbling into a tree?

[Jarre]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

And your point? Yes, people drive drunk, get into crashes, and die. That happens even when people aren't drunk. If anything, those show that cars and roads need increased safety measures.

Again, nobody is debating that drunk driving is bad. Just that taking another step towards a nanny state is a bad thing.

Try telling that to the families of the deceased. It is a big problem and it needs sorting out, wouldn't something to save lives be a good thing? Or are you so concerned about your freedom to drink as much as you want and stumble into a car and hope to get home in one piece? I beleive in zero tollerance when it comes to drink driving, draw the line there and anyone that crosses it is punished.

Cars these days have masses of safety features and the roads here in the Uk are having more and more safety features added i.e. rumble strips close to junctions, non slip surfaces at traffic lights, speed restrictions and cameras etc etc.

In the last week of thefire service we attended a serious RTA between a 2007 volvo estate (one of thesafest cars in the world according to the manurfacturer) and a lorry. Lorry won car was compeltely mangled. Its not the cars, its the drivers, and incidently that was another drunk driver.

[Mhurron]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

We've all seen it, and you're not the only one who has seen it first hand.

The issues you're talking about are personal responsibility issues, they are not things that making laws or changing laws will change.

Lots of countries have the legal drinking age at 18. Lots have liquor that is just as easy if not easier to buy then it is in the UK. They do not have the same problem with drunken idiots that the UK does. Laws that are being proposed are treating (poorly) the symptoms, not the problem. By removing personal responsibility, you exasperate the problem.

[Kailea]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Maybe this will make some people think about the drink driving issue. 2 Incidents I attended 2 years ago....

Drink Driving - the effects

Car driver 3 times over the limit, he had his young wife with him. he survived but spent 6 months in hospital and is confiend to a wheelchair, she died, the elft side of the car taking the brunt of the impact. The alcahol made him feel invincible and he overtook on a blind bend and hit a van head on.



This is whats left of a car after it hit a lorry. There were 4 people in it all 18 years old. The driver was over the limit and driving wrecklasly according to witnesses at the scene. All 4 occupants died, it took us 6 hours to extract all the bodies. the damage you see here we only caused a quartre of cutting the front passsengers out. The rear axel was found in the trees, 20 meters away along with the backseats and their occupants.

you can show that to people all you want, it wont stop them from being stupid....

Feba's idea is very true, and would help alot more then anything else.

[Feba]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

And your point? Yes, people drive drunk, get into crashes, and die. That happens even when people aren't drunk. If anything, those show that cars and roads need increased safety measures.

Again, nobody is debating that drunk driving is bad. Just that taking another step towards a nanny state is a bad thing.

[Jarre]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Maybe this will make some people think about the drink driving issue. 2 Incidents I attended 2 years ago....

Drink Driving - the effects

Car driver 3 times over the limit, he had his young wife with him. he survived but spent 6 months in hospital and is confiend to a wheelchair, she died, the elft side of the car taking the brunt of the impact. The alcahol made him feel invincible and he overtook on a blind bend and hit a van head on.



This is whats left of a car after it hit a lorry. There were 4 people in it all 18 years old. The driver was over the limit and driving wrecklasly according to witnesses at the scene. All 4 occupants died, it took us 6 hours to extract all the bodies. the damage you see here we only caused a quartre of cutting the front passsengers out. The rear axel was found in the trees, 20 meters away along with the backseats and their occupants.

[Akashimo]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Have to agree with Feba on all those points. Only way things would come close to improve with the system as it is.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Get drunk. With Final Fantasy!

Where's the Ether? The Elixir? The Hero's Drink?

To hell with it, I'll have an Ultima.