Botters get pwned by Taj...

[Callisto]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Yeah, you have a point, by now it's pretty much as if botting is just part of endgame and that's how it is. Really it just bums me out for 3 reasons:

1) I am part of 2 endgame linkshells that both stress being good players and exhibiting good sportsmanship. My Sky/HNM shell MogHouse is clean. We did have 2 members on that list, but bother were gone before we even began doing HNMs and other things of the sort, and were they not they would be now. We would rather know that we got the claim legitimately than to get the claim otherwise. I know if FraggleForce ever did HNM they'd be the same way.

2) It sucks to know that you almost need to bot just to compete in endgame now. It is definitely possible to beat botters to claims without it, I've done it several times, but still it blows to know that someone else is cheating and there isn't much you can do about it. I really don't care about lots of the gear, especially abjuration, b/c if you're dedicated you can get it from Einherjar. But I still wanted to experience the fights. I want to say I killed KB and Adamntoise and Fafnir, I have a linkshell capable of beating them, but the playing field isn't level when it comes to making the claim.

3) I'm a sportsman, I don't mind competition. If you want to camp against me, bring it on and may the best claimer win. I stay friendly and have a few moles within all of my rival endgame shells except for one(the Darkhearts linkshell of Ramuh is absolutely 100% devoid of any form of class, I blist anyone I see wearing their pearl unconditionally). It really helps to be in contact with them outside of flaming each other, but it's hard to stay friendly when I see 3-4 of their players named on that list.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Callisto, I'm going to phrase this in a funny way.

[spoiler]Because everyone knows who my ingame friends are, and who I'm associated with. However, I won't involve my friend in any residual drama, but I'm sure that if you do a simple analogy of who is on the list, in what LSs and on what server, it might be obvious if you know me.[/spoiler]

When I asked a friend of mine what he thought of it, he just laughed saying that the most notorious claimers on the main 3 LSes on the server were on the list. And a bunch of members in their LSes.

So. Nothing happened, because the majority of the end-game scene would end.

[Callisto]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Man, this thread got way too long when I was out sick yesterday...

Anyways, the surprise to me has just been players' reaction ingame to their names being on the list. The #1 response has been, 'Yeah, I cheat to claim HNM, so what?'. Not even a denial. Noone being booted from their linkshells or anything like that. I can't imagine the mind set of having 0 dignity like that and not seeing anything wrong with it. Then again I have a career and a g/f that keep me from being a 'full-time' FFXI player and doing the bulk of HNM, so these people are probably further into it than I am that they feel it's ok to cheat as long as you get your gear.

I feel better that at least I know I'm a clean player(I play on console only so that's kind of a default), and I can /laugh at these 'players' when I see them in Whitegate.

[Olorin401]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Well at least he can get a job working with Mitnick after he gets released from Danbury Federal Pen..

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

This is all a question of ethics. We won't agree on this matter because our ethical situations and interpretations are different, same as that. Being ethical does not always equal being legal.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Fair enough - and I don't agree in any shape or form to what Taj has done. I hope he gets caught and gets what he deserves.

However, I'm getting annoyed by Kailea calling FFXIApp a business when it isn't one. Stick to personal data and I wouldn't have a problem, but using business as your argument when it isn't one just bugs the hell out of the pedantic side of me.

[Feba]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Either way, there's a large difference between breaking an EULA/TOS in an online game (which might not be legally considered a contract, and is almost certainly not breaking any laws as it only modifies your own computer), where at best SE might have a right to terminate his servicr, and breaking multiple federal crimes explicitly and repeatedly.

It's sort of like, if someone is running an 'escort service', and someone breaks into their home and steals a list of clients, they have every right to go to the police and get the person arrested for breaking and entering. Committing a crime against a criminal is not legal in any sense.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Yes, but think, for a moment, about the trial aspect (assuming it gets that far) - people will want to know what this guy sells, and why the server was broken into in the first place - and lets face it, what he sells breaks the T&C of an established company, whatever you think of SE. I doubt he has declared taxes on the income, which in itself is illegal - the whole thing would have an impact on a jury. Just saying. Yes, Taj has gone too far - he did that with the server transfers, but frankly - I'm still laughing at the fact that people who broke the EULA got what they deserved.

With the impact FFXIApp has had on the game, it's very hard for me to have sympathy at that point.

FFXIApp is not a business as such - it is something a player has done on the side, and has made money out of it - that's the thing... If it were a business, IRS would be all over it.

[Kailea]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

It's all very well to bust Taj (and frankly, fine), but I'd like to see how he justifies selling an app that breaks the EULA when he calls in the authorities. That is what has been bugging me - he is taking money, selling an application which, as far as SE is concerned, is illegal. You can say what you like about Taj, but that doesn't change the fact about FFXIApp.

well looking at it in a legal view only, selling and using that FFXIapp is not illegal, but hacking into a server is -.- The FBI is going to care less about what his program does to a game, but they will care about Taj hacking into a business server.

I think FFXIapp is the devil, and maybe the characters that where screwed with deserved it..... and Wiki did not deserve anything -.-

But that does not give Taj the right to justify hacking in any shape or form.

You could honestly give me a list of every FFXI player user name and password, and I could hate you with an ultimate passion, but I still, even with that info, would never touch your account. But thats how I am, I dont condone breaking the law, or my morals for that matter.

[Kirsteena]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

It's all very well to bust Taj (and frankly, fine), but I'd like to see how he justifies selling an app that breaks the EULA when he calls in the authorities. That is what has been bugging me - he is taking money, selling an application which, as far as SE is concerned, is illegal. You can say what you like about Taj, but that doesn't change the fact about FFXIApp.

Can you prosecute someone for breaking the law in that respect? Also, has the income he has made been declared on taxes?

[Kailea]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Finally, I hope to see Taj's little 12 year old ass beat to the ground, and then picked back up by Bubba.......

I have heard people justify his action... even in my own LS -.- but I am sorry you can never justify breaking the law, unless its to save a life.

and I am sure I can say safely, there where no lives in danger, with anything he has done

[Malevolent]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Iifuzz seller of the app, Response to his members:

"Information was recieved that the server was hacked this morning. Database went down immediatly.

Unfortunatly, the hacker managed to get a list of users and servers of some users. Most user servers were not identified, however names have been posted.

Can bitch at Taj for it.

Has been reported to the FBI for Intellectual Property Rights, Computer Intrusions (hacking), Economic Espionage (Theft of Trade Secrets), Online Extortion.

Not a clue how he managed to gain access to my forums and databases which all contained unique passwords. (not really i'm guessing it took Taj but 5 mins to get this list) Working with the Host to resolve this issue."

there are a bunch of people bitching and hoping he can get the "list" removed as they are all in fear of their accounts. On top of which he doesn't want to give out the site that the list is on! (iifuzz isn't very bright and doesn't know how to use a search engine >.>)

Some Favorite Quotes:

"much of the server information is incorrect"

"how long till we will be able to use app again?"
iiFuzz: "Not until the security hole which he used is discovered by the me or the host"

"http://www.ic3.gov/about/

4 federal offences. (Cyber Crimes)

filed with the FBI. if nothing happens there, i will press charges."

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

Top priority is Terrorism, right? Where's that list..
------------------------------------------
Oh, Terrorism and Counter-Intelligence.

Eh.. Ok.

[Mhurron]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

I heard last night that that site and I think another one or two he's hacked have informed the FBI. Fair chance that he and Bubba are going to become good friends soon.

Without substantial money being lost or it becoming a high profile event, the FBI won't care.

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/27/2326234

A reading of the Justice Department's 2008 budget justification to Congress for the FBI indicates the agency is dedicating about 5.5 percent of its field agents to combating cyber crime, the FBI's stated Number Three priority, The Washington Post reports. Take away the agents dedicated to catching child predators online — a program that accounts for the vast majority of the department's prosecutorial victories — and about 3.6 percent of the FBI's agents are dedicated to cyber crime, the report notes. From the story: 'If the FBI's third most-important priority claims just over 3.5 percent of its active agents, how many agents and FBI resources are dedicated to the remaining Top Ten priorities?

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/09/is_cyber_crime_a_distant_3rd_p.html#more

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Botters get pwned by Taj...

But she turned me into a newt!