FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

[Caspian]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Well, atleast from personal experience, I learned more about crafting in 30 minutes of tooling around their crafting boards, than in 2+ years of looking at Mystery Tour. Not to discredit mystery tour, I used and still use their site constatly for figuring out what to skillup on next, but as far as HQ rates, break rates, how many levels synth support and adv. synth support give, and even break rates and average skillup rates post 60, I found all on BG long before any other sites had it posted. Now, a lot of sites have since posted it, but a full year+ other sites posted it as fact, it was already being discussed and considered fact on the BG forums, usually with hard data to back it up.
Again, I can undestand a lot of people's aversion to using it, what with the plethora of drama that goes on there, but you really can't discount the knowledge those forums contain. A-holes or not, they know their shit.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Not necessarily. There is a lot of info (specifically crafting, since thats mainly what I looked at on BG) on BG forums that wasn't on the wiki. If a lot of the BG people contribute, it could have a lot more technical information than the other two. Thats one of the things I've always gone to BG for (unless Armando does his math magic here) and their wiki really could stand out in that respect, at the very least. You may not like some of the poster's attitudes, but you can't knock on their endgame knowledge.

Gotta disagree there. Mystery Tour has been around a loooong time and covers crafts well. FFXI AH not only gives me potential returns for farming/crafting, but links to other sites for additional information on the items. I practically live by these two sites for crafting.

Forums and Wikis just have a poor format for listing recipies and FFXI AH one-ups that with the possible returns, these sites are easier to search and navigate.

[Caspian]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Not necessarily. There is a lot of info (specifically crafting, since thats mainly what I looked at on BG) on BG forums that wasn't on the wiki. If a lot of the BG people contribute, it could have a lot more technical information than the other two. Thats one of the things I've always gone to BG for (unless Armando does his math magic here) and their wiki really could stand out in that respect, at the very least. You may not like some of the poster's attitudes, but you can't knock on their endgame knowledge.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

I dunno, with the game being as old as it is now, this HNMLS quality drama really isn't worth starting a whole new site over unless that site can offer something different and I have my doubts BG or Alla can really pull that off.

What these BG and Alla wikis serve to do is try to fill a niche that's already been covered and these other forums are only doing it for reactionary reasons. They'll offer nothing different other than its not buy some guy they felt jipped some people, at least for now.

[Sevv]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Wow just wow on some of these posts. I think it is time to just move on.

The outcome no matter what is this:

Allawiki
Bgwiki
Ffxi wikia

you have a three way split to each, but you also have 3 sources probably each with their own specialty, some sections may be better then others on each board. Each wiki has a loyal base to each site.

FFXI wikia will have the best info at the start no doubt because all the frame work is already posted. The future updates down the line will follow community beliefs on a personal level to each person who updates. They have been around the longest so the only adjustment is maybe a few of their admins having a more hands on when it comes to updating.

Allawiki, even tho people call them allatards (which is in reference to alot of the idiotic posts made on the site frequently), they have some very knowledgeable admins and loyal posters. They have alot of posters who use both bg and alla, even BG's own elmer has promised to help with their lore section. They have alot of the good info on their forums, it is more of a point a to point b project without brining the battle lines that lay on the site.

BGwiki, they have alot of support on their forums already, alot from the old updaters of ffxiwiki. BG has alot of the major info that was posted on wiki as well as a good deal of the updaters who will take back their info, for BG wiki. As for the drama of BG it has been stated that none of it will come on the wiki, some bg lore and jokes like "lolsash" will have a little bg note at the bottom, which for people who surf bg will be a good laugh and for those who don't will not interfere.

So each wiki has its potential, it is pointless to start a drama fest or well continue a drama fest over this issue. Most people here have formed an opinion, weather you may have read the posts by taj, and looked at them neutral and formed an opinion either way. You could have issues with ffxiwiki or bg from the past and jumped to a decision that way, or you just didn't think there was enough evidence to convict any party. Or you could say taj is the devil arrest him, there is no truth because he is a hacker.

Everyone has their stance no matter what the real truth is no one will back down, so it is pointless to continue an arguement that will do nothing but cause drama because of petty disagreements.

[Amele]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Would it have killed Taj or whoever not to have do the edit war? He/they already have the gmail/PM whatever already. Forcing the admins to take down a site to regain control isn't really all that different from taking down a site directly, in my book.

the wiki admin password got leaked, somehow (it was subtle but I picked up on it) so I'm not sure if it was taj or even just one person doing it - although again; it was their own forum's outcries that made them finally take it down (well, that and a post by "Meirin" that was a copy/paste of the second thread starter you saw here and on BG and Alla etc.)

Well, it would be great of the main pages of BG wiki have all the attitudes filtered out. Reading most BG threads give me headaches; it's 50% posturing, 40% useless noise, and 10% real info/debate. If just half of those posturing and noise carry over to their wiki, ... ewww....

Sonomaa et al. (I'm not sure who the top sysop at BGWiki is actually; but sonomaa is at BG forums) are working very hard to pick good editors and moderators to limit the amount of attitude on the wiki; so far it looks like it will hold (almost) all the basic tenets of a wiki: neutral voice, good sourcing, consensus building, etc.

I don't like all the calls to abandon FFXIclopedia, however. I helped to build that, in my own small ways. Some of what Ganiman and Co. hurt like a cut, but all the calls to deface and stop community support for it is like rubbing salt on the injury.

well, thanks in part to the GFDL and also the fact that you didn't grant it exclusive license, you're welcome to remove or copy any of your original work as you see fit.

so if you wanted to contribute it to BGWiki or AllaWiki or even your own website; you would be more than welcome to.

[sdillon]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

fyi...I skimmed the thread but didnt see this posted, if it has been, apologies.

ffxiclopedia isnt down, its just the .org version of their site isnt functioning due to a google ad display problem (from what I can tell), so just go to ffxiclopedia.com or the brand spanking new ffxi.wikia.com. As for the forum being down, 3rd post down from OP or so explained it.

[Olorin401]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

no.... Taj hacked, end of story, if I could prove anything I would turn him in myself.
people really should just get over this already, the site is going no where, "boycotting" it is plain stupid...... and why deny yuorself a place with good info, just because of a little BS that happened, because a hacker did not want to keep his head out of places it should not be.

Well here's where I actually get off the boat. Sorry to say it but I wouldn't go this far, and I wouldn't recommend that FFXI Wiki did either.

- Why wouldn't I? It's just a "me" thing given personal experience. I used to be a hacker a long time ago. Believe it or not, there's unwritten rules that we have. One is that if a hack doesn't cause any monetary harm, or if it exposes a certain truth, then it's supposed to be considered respectable. (I know, it's backwards logic, but it makes sense if you've been in the game)

- Why wouldn't FFXI Wiki take action? This is an easier one. They'd have to provide evidence of the hack in court, and that would open them up to not only character degredation, but also it would make the information about the fundraising "scheme" legal as evidence against them.

[Omni]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

Snowball always receives an abundance of help from everyone here. No nudging necessary.

[Olorin401]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

lol calm down Snow, the site is still there, and wont be going anywhere, you still ahve your info

Of course, I'm sure those of us here will be glad to share pearls of wisdom if you were to post a thread.

*nudges everyone*

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

the funny thing about those though?

the old linkshell (site) usually doesn't recover it's former glory after that happens.

(of course the new one doesn't always succeed either. but I've had some good runs making splinter shells and it can work if you actually deal with fixing what the real problems were; donated servers and unlimited bandwidth will go a long way.)

I've see HNMLS continue to thrive and others wither over these splits, but I've seen more of the upstart shells never really get off the ground. One of the the most prestigeous HNMLSes on Titan was once a withering upstart that botted claim in HNMs and used lots of third party tools. They merged this time last year with an HNMLS withering from its former glory.

But the members of this pretigeous shell were appalled at merging with the botter shell and many left and continue to leave to this day. I don't think there's one original JR member left in that shell. So the end result is we now have a botter HNMLS infused with the former prestige of another HNMLS. It will fail soon enough and for added LOL, Map recently joined it.

lolMap, at least me and BG agree about something

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

they didn't crash it; ganiman et al. elected to take it down rather than ride out the storm. the primary 'hacking' was simply a revision war over the front-page anyway. they didn't take it down til their own forums erupted under them.

Would it have killed Taj or whoever not to have do the edit war? He/they already have the gmail/PM whatever already. Forcing the admins to take down a site to regain control isn't really all that different from taking down a site directly, in my book.

I'm surprised you didn't know that most of the information on the wiki was "appropriated" from KI and Erecia's Guide on her(his?) personal site. (Erecia even lodged a formal complaint about it at one point.)

I wasn't aware of the complaint, but I do know a lot of the info came from there. I also know that the CoP info on FFXIclopedia get fixed and updated more often. (Heck, I probably added some stuff. heh.)

honestly, BG wiki's stance of "Pics or it didn't happen" is probably going to improve the overall quality of the wiki;(stunnable weaponskills comes to mind) along with discussion ongoing about what place specific strats vs. raw information has (they're leaning toward making indepth strats subpages and keeping just pure factual information on the main page; which will be less biased than ffxiclopedia's articles often were - re: a discussion I had prior to AU44 where a player insisted that Nin wouldn't work because of prior failures and that the only strat listed on 'clopedia required a paladin distance tanking)

Well, it would be great of the main pages of BG wiki have all the attitudes filtered out. Reading most BG threads give me headaches; it's 50% posturing, 40% useless noise, and 10% real info/debate. If just half of those posturing and noise carry over to their wiki, ... ewww....

BG starting a wiki has created a storm of people interested in getting involved, and brought several of the old major contributors who had let things fall off at 'clopedia back.

I have not considered that; it would be great if more people would contribute.

honestly. as long as BGWiki has contributors willing to update content other than endgame (and they will, since I'm one of those willing to do mid/early game) they've already got endgame and new content exploration in spades (notice how much even update info here is cross posted from BG).

Well, I think a lot of the info came from JP sources originally (food data, game mechanics ala VZX translations, etc.) as well, but there's no denying that BG people contributed a lot to the understanding of the game.

As long as new info gets on one or both of the wiki in reasonable amount of time, it's good enough.

I don't like all the calls to abandon FFXIclopedia, however. I helped to build that, in my own small ways. Some of what Ganiman and Co. hurt like a cut, but all the calls to deface and stop community support for it is like rubbing salt on the injury.

[Murphie]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

That implies you used to think that was a good site for info. "The info is still there" is what I was trying to point out; if FFXIclopedia was good enough for some things days ago, surely it's still good for the same things a few days from now?

I used to send people there because I wanted to support the site. I don't want to do that anymore, so I'll just send people elsewhere, where they can still get the same information, but without helping the Wiki to prosper. Does that mean that my actions will make a difference? Probably not. But I'll feel better about it.

[eticket109]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

I'll probably still use the Wiki from time to time just like I still use Alla from time to time. Concise sources of information are tough to find. I'll probably just make more of an effort to find the answer elsewhere beforehand.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: FFXI Wiki.. hacked?

And when I post a link to info, I also mean to help the person who needed it. If you choose to suggest one site over another, that's your call.

Just because you feel that it's the best place to send people doesn't necessarily mean that it is. And if the information is available elsewhere, then I will elect to use that source instead.

Actually, let me highlight what really caught my eyes.

I won't be sending anyone there anymore.

That implies you used to think that was a good site for info. "The info is still there" is what I was trying to point out; if FFXIclopedia was good enough for some things days ago, surely it's still good for the same things a few days from now?

Your response isn't surprising though.

You're implying something, but I'm bad at reading minds, so I'll just assume you mean no harm/ill will/insult/etc.