The true meaning of Charisma

[Nodoka]

My BLM AF gloves give +3 CHR. I'm sure it's because the mobs should be coming after me, right?

[Quezi]

Originally posted by j0e

uh, the good ones do. what good is a PLD who doesn't have sub /war for voke??

I think the point was, PLD itself doesnt have voke, so being the unbiased *cough* way that SE makes things, saying that becaus most pld sub war doesnt mean that they expect you to, and baseing it off of a sub would be just like saying somewhere out there is a war/smn, for whatever reason, so war af should get +mp..

You could have simply refuted the origional argument tho by pointing out that the armor in question was both PLD AND WAR specific, so even tho PLDs dont have voke, WARs do, thus if CHA does effect voke, it would make sense.

I bet it doesnt something totaly stupid like.. for every 50 cha you get, all /random will get a +1 bonus! =P

personaly i think PLD have cha just becaus well.. PLD are charismatic and noble leaders.. gota have cha to lead you know=P

[KamaAina]

yeh and personally I think anyone who stacks up on +CHR items based on the rumor that it effects provoke should be examined....

[xarddrax]

Originally posted by Beaginator
CHR affects two things:

1. How often offensive Bard songs (Requeim, Elegy, Threnody, etc.) will be resisted.

2. How often the Beastmaster ability Charm will be resisted.

That's it. Really. CHR is only proven to be useful for BRDs and BSTs, and only for those two reasons. I have never seen any reliable evidence that CHR affects anything other than that.

I know PLD AF has +CHR, but every class's AF has stat boosts that are mostly useless for the class. For example, BRD AF has +VIT. Why would a BRD would want +VIT? No idea. This doesn't mean that more VIT makes songs more effective, or some bullshit like that. Also, Monk AF gives +MND. This doesn't mean that MND affects any of a MNK's abilities, it's just another illogical AF stat boost by Square.

Thank god someone is using thier head here!!!

BRD and BST need max CHR....if more CHR meant more hate why dont BRDs get attacked all the time with >+23 CHR? Think about it people....it makes no sence. I rarley get attacked and i have almost 3 times the CHR as most players in my PTs and i will debuff and attack monsters like crazy.

BRD pants with +STR is a better example of "useless" stat...i posted this on another topic about useless stats on AF:

WAR HAT = +INT
WHM GLOVES = +STR
BLM GLOVES = +CHR
RDM BODY = +CHR
THF HAT = +INT
PLD BOOTS = +CHR
DRK BOOTS = +MND
BST HAT = +INT
BRD LEGS = +STR
RNG HAT = +INT
RNG LEGS = +MND
SAM HAT = +MND
NIN HAT = +CHR
DRG HAT = +MND

I think (and this is only a theory) that CHR will help resist song effects and Charms on placed on you by enemies (Like the Giant BSTs that can charm you and Yagudo BRDs Requiem) That may be a reaon that PLD would have +CHR items...you dont want your PLD to be charmed and start attacking the PT.

[Nodoka]

>That may be a reaon that PLD would have +CHR items...you dont want your PLD to be charmed and start attacking the PT.

I've had that happen. Hehe. They dont hit for much.

[grunion]

Originally posted by xarddrax



Thank god someone is using thier head here!!!

BRD and BST need max CHR....if more CHR meant more hate why dont BRDs get attacked all the time with >+23 CHR?

/sigh

because my contention is that CHR affects Provoke, not enmity. Provoke is essentially a spell that is cast on the enemy, not unlike bard spells which are affected by CHR, so why can't voke be affected by it?

i guess i could use my 59+41 CHR bard and sub war and try a voke off a war/nin with low chr to test it but i'm comfortable with my logic that the highest level uber PLD gear has +CHR and that's good enough for me.

[lun4tic]

It looks me that SE didn't add 'useless' stats to AF armor, they added stats that would help round out that character which wouldn't limit what kind of sub jobs you might use.

If more charisma means less enmity, and paladins had +chr armor, and charisma did affect provoke in favor of the paladin, then that would mean paladins would have less natural hate but gain more when they provoked. Which would cancel out the -enmity, but work better in the long run.

I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

Enmity
Main Entry: en·mi·ty
Pronunciation: 'en-m&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English enmite, from Middle French enemité, from Old French enemisté, from enemi enemy
: positive, active, and typically mutual hatred or ill will

Charisma
Main Entry: cha·ris·ma
Pronunciation: k&-'riz-m&
Variant(s): also char·ism /'kar-"i-z&m/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural cha·ris·ma·ta /k&-'riz-m&-t&, "kar-iz-'mä-t&/; also charisms
Etymology: Greek charisma favor, gift, from charizesthai to favor, from charis grace; akin to Greek chairein to rejoice -- more at YEARN
1 : an extraordinary power (as of healing) given a Christian by the Holy Spirit for the good of the church
2 a : a personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure (as a political leader) b : a special magnetic charm or appeal <the charisma of a popular actor>

I had a test laid out with a bunch of numbers, but the numbers aren't relative to anything to it wasn't very good. But basically enmity leads to being attacked by an aggresive monster:

typically mutual hatred or ill will/

, and charisma leads to obtaining more hate:

a special magnetic charm or appeal

Pwnt.

[grunion]

lunatic you missed the clue boat

first of all for the third time, CHR affects PROVOKE, not enmity

secondly, i know what the words mean and the supposition that the game mechanics are based on literal meanings of the game terms is ridiculous. what skill would logically affect Fire, "A rapid, persistent chemical change that releases heat and light and is accompanied by flame, especially the exothermic oxidation of a combustible substance"? Intelligence, "The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge"? um, no. in addition, if there WAS a stat to affect 'voke, wouldnt it have to be chr? and how could they reward people for having a LOWER stat, when the stat increases as you level? if we follow your silly word analysis to the logical conclusion, everyone would want zero or negative stats in multiple categories.

a more reasonable way to extract a possible connection between chr and 'voke is to say that if you have a high charisma, your "appearance" has a more powerful affect, be it positive or in the case of provoke, negative.

so who is "Pwnt." now, smart ass?

[KamaAina]

No one is pwnt...


you still haven't proven anything.....we dont know for sure and S-E has never said anything about it so why don't you all stop pretending like you know cause you don't. You made an observation and have a theory on it, but that doesn't mean that all the PLDs should go out and buy a flower necklace for the +5 CHR based on your "hunch". Even if you did it with a low CHR and high CHR war voking off eachother all day I wouldn't be convinced. And if I partied with a WAR or a PLD that stacked CHR (instead of their DEF, VIT, and MND if a paladin) I would probobly /slap them.


pwnt :p (god that is a stupid word...its not even a word is this way you guys talk in real life?)

....
/slap

[grunion]

i didn't say i know it is, i'm saying that's my belief and i "pwnt" his malformed logic, that's all :D my apologies. agreed, until s-e releases some documentation it's all hypothesis.

[TMPikachu]

Well KamaAina, hypothesies are all we got with what CHa does

I am 100% positive that higher CHA= stronger provoke. That is my opinion, though it differs from your opinion that it does not do anything with provoke.

[LawDawg]

its funny, most of the middle to high level PLDs (and NINs maybe) all seem to have reached a consensus that CHR has NO effect on the strength of provoke... its just "everyone else" that seems to think otherwise... so please stop acting like you know, since you obviously have no first hand experience...

[Nodoka]

>its funny, most of the middle to high level PLDs (and NINs maybe) all seem to have reached a consensus that CHR has NO effect on the strength of provoke... its just "everyone else" that seems to think otherwise... so please stop acting like you know, since you obviously have no first hand experience...

Best post so far.

[tonka]

you left out bard AF, which is probably the worst in the game. but i wasn't talking about AF - i was talking about maybe the best armor in the game. the highest level armors do not have stupid worthless stats like AF does. e.g. errant gear, koenig's gear, etc.

Is that really true tho? The highest armor i can find stats on is Suzaku's Sune-ate, level 75. For WAR, SAM, RNG, NIN, MNK, BRD, BST. Stats: DEF: 30, MND+15, Fire +50, Blaze Spikes Effect. Why do any of those classes need MND + 15? And only one of those classes (WAR) would benefit from Blaze Spikes (which seems to be a popular armor effect).

[Zelld]

The Only test i have done so far in pertaining to CHR=Enmity is:

2 elvaan 30WAR/15mnk, naked, (to get even more anal, they were the exact same model.) standing on one of the mounds in batallia.

overlapped each other to look like one model. 1 would equip the flower necklace (+3chr)

with support (lvl 50+) waiting to save our asses, we waited for aggro.

I wore the flower necklace first.

5 out of 5 times the aggro came to me (from tigers) and remember we were overlapped, so effectively one model.

i traded flower necklace to my partner.

5 out of 5 times aggro went to him.


SO now tell me... Chr doesn't effect emnity?