the ragnarok linkshell topic

[Sheila]

Originally posted by Kon


What about the new guys, the ones that got the game this week or after March 15th. They are going to be lost. Thats what was the great thing about NG, it had the nOObs as well as the veterans all missed together. And most of the LS's out there arnt willing to allow noobs to join. So my point, it wouldnt be so bad if someone made an equivalent.

I don't think anyone should make an equivalent. It will be same problem again.

The fact that people come into this game, expecting english players to "mooch" offa (see Awntawn's post) is WHY Neogundan became such a wreck. This also goes back to the old DragoonKnights anger over people talking so much english in say or parties, because they assume this server is english.

When I was new I was scared of offending everyone, english players and japanese players. I think everyone should come to the game with cautious feelings towards their actions, and the ability to learn on their own, as most of us "vets" did.

[darick]

^
^
^
^
Sheila is right. We all have to consider that this game was meant for Japanese players and be aware of ourselves not to make them to adapt to us on thier territory.

Just use /tell when you can please...and only use english at emergency situation in which you can't type jap...ie Run!

Respect the players and respect the game ^^

Not too sad 'cause NG about to end...hopefully new LS will lessen the problems...><

[DemonSlayer]

well myself and kaze are making are own linkshell. Opened to all, im not quite sure what is happening with neogundan, but ours will be welcomed to all. Trying to keep it a decent size.. Thanks

[DemonSlayer]

sorry to double post but its name is Fallen, you can contact myself and kaze tomorrow the 27th. Ill be on between 3:30 est to 6:45est

[Xuande]

I know I usually piss people off when I add in my two cents, so not to let anyone down~:

(Before I start: I support the break of NG, even though it does not seem that way when I say...)

How does this solve anything? Given, now there is no one linkshell that will be blamed and stereotyped anymore whenever one member does one action, but regardless of how many linkshells big or small, there is still a huge problem. Now, the whole importer community will be stereotyped (is already perhaps). Japanese will be weary of anyone uttering the phrase "I can only do a bit of Japanese." People who can't act properly will still reflect negatively on anyone who doesn't have enough ability to speak in convincing Japanese, or anyone who hasn't established a strong standing in the Japanese community. Nothing has changed, beginners will just become more frustrated with their lack of help that they once had, perhaps encouraging more bad behavior: excessive english where it is not welcome, whining for help on missions and quests, and breaking established rules now that there is no one to criticize them. (Of course, most beginners are out-standing citizens of Vana'diel. I appologize to you.) What has changed, as I see, is those who cared, and no longer have the will to, will be breaking away from these individuals in attempt to ignore the whole problem, which is still very real.

And now, to present counter-points to my argument to save you all the effort: (You're welcome ^^)

1) This is a Japanese game. What were you expecting? People who cannot communicate will fail in anything communication intensive. This is inescapable and there is no solution aside from learning to communicate. Not to be a hippocrit, I have decided to make a Japanese guide that not only has common expressions to use, but also common expressions that might be responded to you. This will hopefully prevent the invitation of Japanese people who reject invitation offers (this is a big complaint). I also aim to make it usable by anyone, as long as you are deticated enough to build your character recognition skills.

2) The disbanding of a central LS DOES help the problem. First of all, the hope is that the people who don't respect the rules and mooch will not be able to find a new linkshell to mooch off of, due to the fact that there is no "All welcome" policy implemented anymore, and people's behavior will be judged when entry is considered. This will hopefully encourage these people to shape up, or if they can't, leave. There is also the lack of a branded association to a tarnished name now.

BUT, it has to stay that way. For the sake of your new LS's, and all importers, everyone needs to play the game in a respectable way. This is the only way to truly solve the problem, because that was the original problem to begin with: people's attitudes. For those of you who can't blend into the Japanese community, know that everyone around you reflects on you either positively or negatively, and you need to respect this. If someone is going to scam the gambling host, don't cheer them on! Frown on people who leave parties without giving enough notice! Everyone needs to work together to keep our presence as guests clean and shiny

[Awntawn]

I know the biggest problem is not the one Linkshell, but how people act. The thing is, new players seem to feel excessively smug in a large importer linkshell to the point where they do not even make an effort to learn the language or customs. They try their best to form importer parties all the time, and when short on members, occasionally recruit one Japanese person and overwhelm them with English party text. At beginner levels, this may seem OK, but gradually as their levels get higher, those groups that always partied with each other become so far apart that they can't party with each other anymore, and have to find Japanese parties. Suddenly you have a mid-20's character in Jeuno who doesn't know how to communicate to get the renkei order. At low levels, it's OK to be clueless, but by the mid-20's you're expected to know how things work.

Players who started earlier (before NG got that big) had no choice but to join Japanese parties. Maybe at they're first few parties, they screw up a bit. It's OK though, just a "Lost English Newbie." An "Ignorant English Player" is a different label. When you party in Valkurm, a number of the people there are newbies, and you usually expect things to go wrong even with Japanese players. As the levels go higher, though, you can't not know what to do anymore. No one expects a young bird to fly, but it should be able to by the time it grows up.

Also, we all know that NeoGundan is not a normal Linkshell; it's a community. It's approximately 90% of the importers on the server. We know it's impossible to control all of the members. Unfortunately, the outside doesn't know that. They think it's just a normal Linkshell, except that the people speak English instead. Now I don't give a hell what some people try to tell you, but in the real world, what the outside thinks about you DOES matter. Everyone in the world hears about Michael Jackson sleeping with children. He claims it's nothing sexual. So... perverted or legit?

In a normal linkshell, if a player is a prominent... well... problem, they usually get removed. This person can go and join another Linkshell, but if it's really his problem he's likely to get kicked again and again until he changes. People know there are consequences for inacceptable behavior, so they play the game respectfully. What about an open community like NG? With such a tolerant community, so many english-speaking people and forgiving leaders, what incentive do newer players have to learn to communicate and act respectfully towards the outside?

EDIT:

The importer linkshells should help importers overcome language barriers, NOT to "avoid them unless absolutely necessary."

EDIT2:

From what I've observed, people are all picking one new LS and flooding into it like the "next NG"... I knew it would happen once someone presents a "no member limit, no requirement" shell... I'm telling you ahead of time (both the leaders of the new shell and those wishing to join) that this is not productive. The LS was on the brink of disbandment anyhow. Johnny's announcement of his departure from the game (;_ simply set it in the stone. I know it's everyone's freedom to do what they want... But still...

[Xuande]

Well said

I'd definitely suggest that a NG-like LS not be remade. When this game was still relatively new, there were so few importers that they could be united by a sole common fact that they were importers. Now that the importer community has reached such a level, it's possible to make "real" linkshells, the way they were supposed to be made: people who have things in common, are friends, and so forth. Imagine if this were the English version, would you invite anyone and everyone? That would be crazy

I know it's not the English version, but the population is now large enough to do something like this. And to stop regurgitating what everyone else has already said, I'll stop now.

[Elite]

I know some may think legion might be leaning towards that direction, but the people recruited should already know the basics and doesent need the help a real newcomer would need. A mid level LS isn't so bad if you think about it, we are gonna stop recruiting once it reaches the limit, but I can tell you that it wont be like NG where you were given more than 5 chances before you ever got banned or kick, in here you'll get only one chance and I'm sure we all learned our lessons after what happened to NG so let's not make the same mistake. It may be easy for most of the mid levels to go out and join another LS but some of the people who were in NG(the majority actually) never did anything to effect the LS in a bad manner, it's not fair to them and they wont be able to join any other LS that only takes your so called "Vets" and even mid levels, we know the majority make up these people who've been playing for only 2 months and I can bet you if you ask them, theyre sick of "Vet only LS's" and "Dont mess with a Vet."

[Ethos]

I think we should create one link shell that all importers will have...you know, just to keep in touch. It keeps us a little more "unified".

[Awntawn]

Originally posted by Ethos
I think we should create one link shell that all importers will have...you know, just to keep in touch. It keeps us a little more "unified".

But then everyone will only want to hang out there and it's the same thing over again...

[Saiyu]

I would want a unified LS like Gundam, not just for the benefit of new players, but for everyone. I think it could also help Japanese-other language relations, as people with absolutely no knowledge of Japanese can get easy, accesible help. I'm not saying it should become a "help centre" LS, but it would be good, for EVERYONE, not just "non-newbs" to help each other out.

Personally I don't like "Veteran" only things and too selective things.