Grappling

[Mezlo]

Re: Grappling

Being able to move the opponent to any adjacent panel every turn for free is seriously OP. I think we should go back to the original rules for that particular action.

LOL... yeah, by moving them you let anyone in adjacent spaces have a AoO, kind of crushes them...

[Armando]

Re: Grappling

Being able to move the opponent to any adjacent panel every turn for free is seriously OP. I think we should go back to the original rules for that particular action.

[Armando]

Re: Grappling

This free/open source/cross-platform diagramming software: Dia

It's not exactly Microsoft Vizio, but hey. It's small and free!

[cidbahamut]

Re: Grappling

What are you using to make those flowcharts?

[Armando]

Re: Grappling

Revised flowcharts

Let me know if I screwed something up again.

[Armando]

Re: Grappling Discussion

It's not exactly 3rd Edition, Yyg has made some alterations. That's the main reason I'm making these flowcharts - to present Yyg's rules concisely and see if there's any misunderstandings.

[Firewind]

Re: Grappling Discussion

We have a thread for Third Edition Grappling?

It won't be enough, you will need a forum alone for it...

[Yygdrasil]

Grappling Discussion

Bump

[Taskmage]

Re: D&D

Excuse me, good sirs, but I have a question or several regarding the action of grappling that I hoped a knowledgeable dungeon master might be able to answer ...

[Armando]

Grappling Discussion

My Little Grappler: Flowcharts are Magic

Still need to do round 3. I'll do that one tomorrow. Let me know if you spot any mistakes.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: D&D

re-post them...

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and post this flow chart when you're done. I wants it.

[Armando]

Re: D&D

Also: GAWD!!!! ARE WE DONE YET?!?! DO YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT GRAPPLE?!? I SWEAR TO GOD!!! SAY GRAPPLE ONE MORE GODDAMN TIME!!!

I think I'm ready to make the new Grappling flow chart now. If you wanna take a look at those nifty items I posted a couple of pages back though, that'd just be dandy!

[Yygdrasil]

Re: D&D

Anyhow, I'd still like to know if a grappled opponent can cast somatic spells or not.

They can.

Re: Tuum ManosAre we talking about the -4 on the initial Grapple attempt for not being empty-handed, or the -4 to attack enemies other than my grapple victim?

the -4 to attack enemies other than my grapple victim

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Also: GAWD!!!! ARE WE DONE YET?!?! DO YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT GRAPPLE?!? I SWEAR TO GOD!!! SAY GRAPPLE ONE MORE GODDAMN TIME!!! I'LL UP AND REMOVE ALL THE GRAPPLE FROM THIS BITCH!!! I'LL CUT YOUR FUCKING LIMBS OFF WITH THE NEXT TRAP I CAN DO THAT!!! WOULD YOU LIKE THAT?!? AN AMPUTEE CLERIC?!? TRY GRAPPLING SHIT NOW, FUCKER!!! DON'T MESS WITH ME!!! I'M THE MOTHER FUCKING DUNGEON MASTER!!!

nah j/k... I wouldn't do that. Go ahead... ask another question...

[Armando]

Re: D&D

A grapple is still a hard thing to hold onto no matter how many feats you spend on it.

Your math is spot-on, but Greater Grapple really is a big improvement. I get two rolls to continue the grapple, but only need one to succeed. If I have a 50% chance, the +5 circumstance bonus to keep the grapple going puts me at 75%. The odds of getting at least 1 roll out of 2 is 93.75% They can break loose during their own turn, but odds are they won't during mine.

Your example also didn't take into consideration Improved Grapple (+2 to all rolls) and Enlarge Person (+1 to STR mod, +1 to size mod), which we already have. That puts my initial chance at 70%, and my chance to get subsequent rolls right at 95% (can't get better because of auto-fail on 1). Greater Grapple would give me another +2 (wasted) and a chance of getting 1/2 right of 99.75%. And a Wizard/Sorcerer's BAB will still go up slower than mine, so my chance of success still improves over time against squishy casters. (My chance of success will decrease over time at the same rate vs +1 BAB classes.)

Anyhow, I'd still like to know if a grappled opponent can cast somatic spells or not.

Re: Tuum Manos

- The wielder does not suffer the usual -4 penalty for attack rolls made against opponents while acting as the Primary Grappler

Are we talking about the -4 on the initial Grapple attempt for not being empty-handed, or the -4 to attack enemies other than my grapple victim?

[Yygdrasil]

Re: D&D

A grapple is still a hard thing to hold onto no matter how many feats you spend on it.

1d20 + BAB + STR Mod is all Armando really has to go on for CMB. At minimum he needs to break the base 10 points of CMD that any mob gets to resist a grapple.

Assuming that he's got a +3 BAB and +2 STR (i honestly don't remember and I'm too lazy to look it up) that's 1d20+5 vs 10 + DEX mod + The enemie's CMB. That's still really tough to do consistantly.

Say for instance he tries to grapple Mezlo with those same stats. Mezlo's CMB is BAB +1? + STR Mod +0 + Size mod +0... so 1?

Mezlo's CDB would then be 10 + 1(CMB) + 4(DEX) for a total of 15. Armando gets a +5 to CMB... so he still needs to roll a 10 or higher. That's exactly a 50/50 chance.

That's not even to mention the fact that Armando will need to succeed every round from there on out simply to maintain the grapple.

It does get easier after you successfully hold them for 1 round though... because of the +5 circumstance bonus. I like to think of it as... tightening the grip.