So... Starcraft 2?

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

While it's true that you can inflate that stat for shits & giggles, that doesn't really do anything. Besides, the high APM counts in HD Starcraft's videos are clearly not just for show - these guys are pulling off simultaneous, multi-pronged attacks. The Koreans are especially insane with the level of control they exert over individual units in a battle. You can not fucking watch one of those match ups and tell me APM doesn't matter because it sure as shit does. Which reminds me, it's been a while since HD has done a game with Idra raging over "cheese" XD

^^^

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Both of you DIAF for bringing that douche bag into this, even in parody form.

And while I'm at it, Fuck You Usher.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Off topic, but much better than the above:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvmIzxO0-n4]YouTube - Heavy Bieber - Baby (feat. Scoutacris)[/ame]

[Tickmeoff]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzMhh8zhTiY"]YouTube - Banelings - (Justin Bieber - Baby PARODY) ft HuskyStarcraft / KurtHugoSchneider[/ame]


I don't believe this requires explanation.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Again, a statistic means nothing if it can be artificially inflated. This is high-school math.

So, the guy knows how to command his troops? Does that automatically mean he isn't issuing redundant commands to inflate his APM? No. There's more to the game than how many orders you can issue in a minute. If that weren't the case, I could tell the same SCV to mine the same patch of minerals and auto-win.

While it's true that you can inflate that stat for shits & giggles, that doesn't really do anything. Besides, the high APM counts in HD Starcraft's videos are clearly not just for show - these guys are pulling off simultaneous, multi-pronged attacks. The Koreans are especially insane with the level of control they exert over individual units in a battle. You can not fucking watch one of those match ups and tell me APM doesn't matter because it sure as shit does. Which reminds me, it's been a while since HD has done a game with Idra raging over "cheese" XD

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Obviously there is more to the game than APM. But it's a good way to analyze your own gameplay, as well as a decent indication of a players mechanical skills. Someone that tops out at 40 APM will not be able to macro/micro as well as someone with 100+ APM.

And if someone can issue 100 APM using nothing but redundant commands, it's still pretty impressive.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Again, a statistic means nothing if it can be artificially inflated. This is high-school math.

So, the guy knows how to command his troops? Does that automatically mean he isn't issuing redundant commands to inflate his APM? No. There's more to the game than how many orders you can issue in a minute. If that weren't the case, I could tell the same SCV to mine the same patch of minerals and auto-win.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I know how to win 100% of my games, but the difficulty lies in the execution, because it's not fun doing it myself and it's difficult/not fun coercing my teammates into doing it as well.

This is pretty much my biggest problem too. I have no real issues grasping the strategy aspect, with regards to countering and when to expand. But I just can't keep my APM high enough to really stay highly competitive, even though they added a lot of things to make it easier (like worker rallies).

Err, Dak what are you smoking? APM translates directly into both Micro & Macro. According to HD, 40 APM is about the average for gold league, with 100+ being the requirement for Diamond. In one of his latest casts with Merz vs Dimaga, Merz was up to an ungodly 350+ APM and it showed - the dude was all over the freaking map issuing commands and managing his base.

That kind of APM just terrifies me though, and I don't see how the hell the game is even any fun when you're taking it that seriously. Funny thing is though my APM is pretty low in SC2 but in Halo Wars it was hella high. I don't know if that's because of the controller or if simply because so much of the Macro is automated in that game.

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

If you don't believe APM is an important stat, than more power to you.

I will continue to issue commands as I see fit in order to break that 100 APM mark. Being able to command a warp prism drop while similtaneously pushing their choke while managing upgrades and building units will increase my APM, and will help me win more games.

League distinction isn't nearly as important to me as becoming a better player, and APM will help. The goal ultimately is to get better, right?

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

APM is an excellent indicator of how effective you can manage your troops in the mid and late game. Yes, it is less important in the early game when you only have a handful of units, but once the game goes into the 15+ minute range, APM becomes very important.

I average 70 APM and I am only a platinum player. I'm sure if I can push my APM to the triple digits, it will give me enough control to get to diamond. Or I can just 4 gate all day, but that's boring.

It's indicative only of how many orders you issue, not how well you can manage your troops. It can be artificially inflated easily, thus it's useless as a statistic. Watch the pros, most of them issue redundant or pointless orders. The excuse is that it's to "warm up", but that's bullshit, plain and simple.

If you really believe the key to breaking into higher leagues is by playing better, than you don't understand how the system works.

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

APM is an excellent indicator of how effective you can manage your troops in the mid and late game. Yes, it is less important in the early game when you only have a handful of units, but once the game goes into the 15+ minute range, APM becomes very important.

I average 70 APM and I am only a platinum player. I'm sure if I can push my APM to the triple digits, it will give me enough control to get to diamond. Or I can just 4 gate all day, but that's boring.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Uhhh... okay? I kinda doubt this, but sure.

Knowing the theory doesn't matter if you don't have the APM to do it.

APM is not as important as people make it out to be.

Tell an SCV to go to the same mineral patch 100 times isn't skill.

Besides, building a few Barracks and producing a handful of Marines and Marauders is not action intensive. Niether is A-moving them into an enemy's base.

[Ufgt]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

I know how to win 100% of my games,

Uhhh... okay? I kinda doubt this, but sure.

Knowing the theory doesn't matter if you don't have the APM to do it.

[DakAttack]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Anybody still play this game?

I know how to win 100% of my games, but the difficulty lies in the execution, because it's not fun doing it myself and it's difficult/not fun coercing my teammates into doing it as well. This, of course, is the early push. It's much easier to coordinate an attack than a defense, because a defense requires knowing where the opponent will strike. Putting a few units together is easy, quick, and, between a few teammates, they add up to an unstoppable force. Relatively small, but unstoppable.

The only issue with this is taking too long visiting each opponent to destroy them. Any hitch may give one or two opponents enough to time to start producing counters, which rarely turns out well. Hitting economies, or key buildings, such as Cyber Cores, Spawning Pools, or Barracks, is usually enough to handicap them until you return, preventing them from further teching.

I actually played a match where an ally had two zealots, a stalker, and five stargates. The opponent had scanned him about ten times, so I'm assuming they began producing anti-air, but it didn't matter because he hadn't produced a damn thing. I sat there for a good minute, boggling at the sheer lack of something, while the opponents stormed our base with ground-form Vikings.

[Malacite]

Re: So... Starcraft 2?

Zerg could still use some anti-air in their tier one units. And it would be neat if there were more of a benefit to burrow than just being undetectable

And that's what I'd like to see done with Hydralisks. Give them a new evolution that turns them into a dedicated AA unit. They're tier 2 now I think, but they still strike me as the best candidate for this, barring some new strain altogether (unless they come up with an AA Roach evolution? That'd be cool too)

But heart of the swarm isn't coming for at least 18 months ; . ;

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

Reapers are now over nerfed and almost no one uses them.

Pretty much... they were never that big a deal for Protoss anyway since you can typically have a stalker or two out by the time reapers come along. It's more difficult for Zerg to mount a counter and that's where it was imba since by the time you'll have even 1 roach reapers can be inside your mineral line wrecking havoc. IMO though, the range increase is enough to deter this, along with maybe a slight increase to the cost of Nitro packs.

Blizzard has a pretty good track record though so I'm sure they'll correct their overreach pretty soon. That's another reason I like them better than SE these days, they can admit when they've fucked up. SE always has to try and save face somehow, but I guess that's just part of the Japanese culture.