Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

[Ufgt]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Done with this conversation, Karinya is retarded.

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

The point isn't that it's wrong for a block string to be punishable, it's that the reversals are too easy, spammable and safe. You don't have to continue holding back because of absolute guard, and you never have to go into High block, so you can continue to spam the input. Might as well have the game do it for you.

If the game did it for you, it wouldn't know when to stop. If you *do* need to know when to stop... then what's the problem?

Do you have any videos of people abusing this "too easy, spammable and safe" tactic? I'd like to see what that looks like. (Especially since FADC and ultras both require meter -- which is hard to gain by turtling, AFAIK.)

The attacker is still on the losing end of the bargain while the defender can comfortably wait for the situation to reverse in his favor.

This explains all those videos of high level matches where both players just stand there and look at each other, because neither one is willing to put themselves at a disadvantage by attacking. </sarcasm>

Nobody would release a game where the attacker was genuinely on the losing end of the bargain. You just (apparently) think aggression isn't being rewarded *enough*. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a design decision that Capcom can make differently (and has).


As for the more general point about the complexity of moves/combos as a factor in game balance, I think the Soul Calibur series illustrates my point. DF, DF+attack button (the noob friendly shortcut lionx complains about in SFIV) is about as complex as 80%+ of moves in SC, to the point where it's hard to even draw a firm distinction between "normal" and "special" moves. That doesn't stop Soul Calibur from having deep gameplay where actual noobs do not generally beat skilled players, because noobs fall into patterns that can be anticipated and countered.

P.S. This thread is good for one thing: I'm definitely getting SSFIV. (Although, tbh, I was leaning that way anyway.) If the worst thing you can come up with to say about it isn't even a disadvantage IMO, it must be pretty good.

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

I don't need videos, i seen Daigo do it in REAL LIFE at the Gamestop Nationals while standing in the front row watching his hands. Outside of that, i been playing at arcades before and the guy who is literally right across from me, clearly and soundfully does it. He knows when to stop too! Or you can just search up Andre vs Daigo foney match...it doesn't show the hands but the announcer says he sees it if you want someone else to verify.

I don't think you understand the concept of turtling either...i can easily build meter by whiffing uppercuts at a safe distance or poke at you with fireballs at a safe distance and i can STILL be turtling. Obviously theres more to the game than just defensively, but overall the game is way too defensive.

This explains all those videos of high level matches where both players just stand there and look at each other, because neither one is willing to put themselves at a disadvantage by attacking. </sarcasm>

OMG NO WAI, in MY Semi-Finals of a high level Japanese Tournament?!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw8SUlK_5OM"]YouTube- SF4:Ii Desu Ketsu Bat (Ho) vs Ara Four (Ho) - Quarter-Final - TRF 17-07-2009[/ame]

I am not going to even try to touch that Soul Calibur comment either. 3D games and 2D games are different in every way and if you don't even know that then you don't really know these games or you are one epic troll. I am done and i think for other people reading, my point went across fine.

To end it, i hope SSFIV would be a good game and fix at least some of the issues that were covered in this thread. I am only going to post here if theres new updates or interesting tidbits to talk about.

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Nobody would release a game where the attacker was genuinely on the losing end of the bargain. You just (apparently) think aggression isn't being rewarded *enough*. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's a design decision that Capcom can make differently (and has).
.

that's so right! abusers just want SSFIV to be another Marvel vs. Capcom 2.

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Well, I don't speak Japanese, so I don't know what was going on in that first round (apparently they agreed not to play the first round?), but once they actually start fighting, I count 16 separate attacks/combos/exchanges (including wakeups), in which the attacker dealt damage 9 times, the defender 4 times, and 3 times neither player took damage before someone retreated. (That is including block damage, but block damage is enough to win the round if the opponent doesn't do any damage at all.) OMG the defender advantage, how can anyone play that game?!

Oh, and precisely 0 reversals comboed into ultras, with FADC or without it.

I think this doesn't exactly support your idea that attacking is penalized.

(And, yes, 3d games are different, but they're not THAT different. Neither type of game depends on the complexity of inputs to be interesting or balanced.)

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

ya look at this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU5YZ2ECp8M"]YouTube- Shine (Gouken) vs Sanford Kelly (Akuma) @ Battlefield Arcadia #9 #sf4[/ame]

the attacker still has advantages. I think the IV series damage-wise is more balanced and more interesting matches than most fighting games.

[Tickmeoff]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Oh, and precisely 0 reversals comboed into ultras, with FADC or without it.

Have you.. actually played SF4?

You seem to be suggesting E. Honda has some way of comboing into his ultra. I hope very much that you are trolling.

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

new Super tips!


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dIhsDzL9iQ"]YouTube- Super Street Fighter 4 - Exclusive Game Trailers Makoto Walkthrough By Justin Wong[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-9e_EmR_TA"]YouTube- Super Street Fighter 4 - Exclusive Game Trailers Dudley Walkthrough By Justin Wong[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADrdjdksplU"]YouTube- Super Street Fighter 4 - Exclusive Game Trailers Ibuki Walkthrough By Justin Wong[/ame]

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Videos featuring Justin wong with tutorials on the new 3s chars. The youtube ones are blocked.

Makoto
Super Street Fighter IV Video Game, Exclusive Character Walkthrough: Makoto | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com

Ibuki
Super Street Fighter IV Video Game, Exclusive Character Walkthrough: Ibuki | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com

Dudley
Super Street Fighter IV Video Game, Exclusive Character Walkthrough: Dudley | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com

[Armando]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Nobody would release a game where the attacker was genuinely on the losing end of the bargain.

Super Smash Bros Brawl fits this criteria completely. It's impossible to follow up a hit with anything, and there's always so little shield stun that blocking is always completely safe.

[jenova_9]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

most casual people don't bother to block in Brawl anyway. :p

[Armando]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Most fighters are "good" when played on a casual level. It's when they're played competitively that imbalance rears its ugly head.

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

You seem to be suggesting E. Honda has some way of comboing into his ultra. I hope very much that you are trolling.

Lionx was complaining that mashed reversals comboed into ultras supposedly dominate the gameplay of SFIV and force everyone to turtle. (Well, as far as I could understand him at all, anyway.)

Then he comes up with a video supposedly from a high-level tournament, in which both players are playing a character that *can't do that at all*, and in addition, whether or not you want to characterize their playstyles as turtling, they are more successful attacking than defending.

It's particularly funny since when I saw that the video was a mirror match, I was ready to make an argument about how one character lacking offense or being played as a turtle doesn't mean the whole game is lacking in offense or dominated by turtles (well, unless that one character is super-top-tier, I guess)... but it turns out from the video that Honda doesn't lack offense at all, even when played by a possible turtle!

[lionx]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmlO5Qvzx9s"]YouTube- [SSFIV] - Hakan Trailer[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jxmXlQsHMo"]YouTube- [SSFIV] Hakan vs Juri GAMEPLAY[/ame]

[Karinya]

Re: Super Street Fighter IV ! SFIII characters trailer!

Animations seem excessively silly, but might be a fun guy to play.