Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

[Armando]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

First off: Why all the hate? Prejudiced, much? Just 'cuz I said casual play isn't the same thing as tournament play and because Free For Alls are inherently unfair? Just because I said the IGN players are a bunch of noobs at the game? Which is true; and I don't expect them to be experts at Melee just so they can give me an in-depth analysis of how game mechanics have changed. But it's a fact that they're newbies.

For your information, I've been using Fox since way before I knew what a tier list even is. I also used Roy but after about a year I gave up on him because he's too weak as a character to viably win with. No, winning isn't everything to me, but some characters ARE made too weak (we both know Pichu and Young Link are inferior to Pikachu and Link in most ways.)

I don't look down on casual players because I understand high level play for any game requires a big time investment that only a person with a real passion for the game can willingly provide. Don't run around accusing serious players of being top tier whores or victory-obsessed. I HAVE NEVER USED SHEIK IN MY LIFE, NOR HAVE I EVER USED MARTH; I DESPISE BOTH CHARACTERS. I also acknowledge Fox is top tier. That's too bad, because I happen to like the character. But Fox is not unbeatable. Marth, Peach, Sheik, Falco, Mario/Dr.Mario, and Samus all stand a fair chance at beating him. Moreover, Fox as a character has potential beyond what a human can get out of him. That means no matter how long I play, there'll always be some new way to push myself with him.

Do you see me playing Flavor of the Month jobs on FFXI? No.

Anyways, there are more reasons to keep Sheik than remove her. Is she broken? Sure. So is Fox. They're not removing him. Did they make changes to him? Yeah. They can do the same for Sheik.

Sheik is a popular character, used by many, and she's never had a clone. Those reasons are enough for Nintendo to leave her in. Nintendo is no doubt aware that this game is played competitively and players take it as seriously as one can take Street Fighter III or Guilty Gear XX. Part of making Brawl enjoyable is to make the transition from Melee to Brawl a smooth one. People are going to be pissed if a popular character disappears from the roster.

And I'm aware that Sheik and Zelda are the same person. But that's OoT Zelda and you're well aware that Brawl's Zelda will be Twilight Princess Zelda. Those are NOT the same person. And to further show how absurd that argument is in the first place: You are aware that Mario and Dr. Mario are the same person, right?

EDIT: Re: "...Fox as a character has potential beyond what a human can get out of him."[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=euHUAbmkyAY[/youtube]NOTHING in this video breaks game mechanics or rules. The timing is just too much for humans. (This was made playing frame by frame with Action Replay and then putting all the frames together in the video.)

P.S. Ice Climbers are more broken than anyone in the game. YET THEY'RE STILL IN BRAWL.[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ipI68t5PsGo[/youtube](Yes, folks, this is illegal in tourneys...but that doesn't stop them from cutting Popo's throw short with a Nana forward or down smash. Desynching ftw.)

P.P.S. I hear ya Feba. I'm really glad they're pumping up Kirby and Yoshi. They royally screwed them up in Melee.

[Murphie]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

I only just started reading this thread, but just so that I'm clear...

Smash Brothers - Serious Business?

[Armando]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

It can be.

By the way, just to lighten the mood: The Wrath of Giga Bowser
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZNOw8UtJfvE[/youtube]
Watch it, it's pretty "lol"

[Feba]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

illegal in tourneys

super lame.

I've never appreciated people that feel that it's needed to put more restrictions on a game than it was created with for tournaments-- especially when they're official ones.

and actually, I never used Yoshi. Not even for the sand bag contest (I used Marth or Roy IIRC)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

First off: Why all the hate? Prejudiced, much? Just 'cuz I said casual play isn't the same thing as tournament play and because Free For Alls are inherently unfair? Just because I said the IGN players are a bunch of noobs at the game? Which is true; and I don't expect them to be experts at Melee just so they can give me an in-depth analysis of how game mechanics have changed. But it's a fact that they're newbies.

For your information, I've been using Fox since way before I knew what a tier list even is. I also used Roy but after about a year I gave up on him because he's too weak as a character to viably win with. No, winning isn't everything to me, but some characters ARE made too weak (we both know Pichu and Young Link are inferior to Pikachu and Link in most ways.)

I don't look down on casual players because I understand high level play for any game requires a big time investment that only a person with a real passion for the game can willingly provide. Don't run around accusing serious players of being top tier whores or victory-obsessed. I HAVE NEVER USED SHEIK IN MY LIFE, NOR HAVE I EVER USED MARTH; I DESPISE BOTH CHARACTERS. I also acknowledge Fox is top tier. That's too bad, because I happen to like the character. But Fox is not unbeatable. Marth, Peach, Sheik, Falco, Mario/Dr.Mario, and Samus all stand a fair chance at beating him. Moreover, Fox as a character has potential beyond what a human can get out of him. That means no matter how long I play, there'll always be some new way to push myself with him.

Do you see me playing Flavor of the Month jobs on FFXI? No.

Okay. You have to forgive me, I am, admittedly, predjudiced against Tourney Players. You can say it's because I got my noob Pikachu butt kicked, and, to be honest, you wouldn't be far off.

Honestly, I could about tournament play all day, but I don't have that kind of time. Smashboards is far worse, for that matter: not really that helpful to me, who was actually trying to get in to tournament player habits, but then, the only place where there were tournaments in in my area got up and went, and I am, once more, without anybody but me noobier brother to play against (and that's only if I play him in Halo first).

I'm sorry, I'm starting to get in to my rant. Let me close it by saying that Wi-Fi play will be much appreciated by me, and I just went and stopped visiting Smashboards once I saw Sonic as a character, because I knew how crazy it was going to be (I didn't have much reason for visiting it, anyways, really) >_> .

Anyways, there are more reasons to keep Sheik than remove her. Is she broken? Sure. So is Fox. They're not removing him. Did they make changes to him? Yeah. They can do the same for Sheik.

Sheik is a popular character, used by many, and she's never had a clone. Those reasons are enough for Nintendo to leave her in. Nintendo is no doubt aware that this game is played competitively and players take it as seriously as one can take Street Fighter III or Guilty Gear XX. Part of making Brawl enjoyable is to make the transition from Melee to Brawl a smooth one. People are going to be pissed if a popular character disappears from the roster.

I have two things to complain about in this particular section.

First, the only reason Shiek was popular was because she was broken, and, really, we're seeing something similar to Shiek in Zero Suit Samus, so that really debunks your whole "unique" arguement. You visit Smashboards, so you know of all the tournament players whom are begging for Zero Suit Samus to not require a Smash Ball to play. Really, it's all just wishful thinking. Shiek isn't in, Zero Suit Samus isn't playable without a Smash Ball, get over it. (This wasn't to you specifically, Armando, this was to tournament players in general.)

Also, the second thing is I loathe Brawl being compared to Melee: one of my biggest fears is that Brawl will turn out to be nothing more than a "Melee 2," rather than the "Smash Bros. 3" it's supposed to be.

And I'm aware that Sheik and Zelda are the same person. But that's OoT Zelda and you're well aware that Brawl's Zelda will be Twilight Princess Zelda. Those are NOT the same person. And to further show how absurd that argument is in the first place: You are aware that Mario and Dr. Mario are the same person, right?

Heh. You got me on that, except Dr. Mario isn't exactly a prime candidate for returning, now, is he?

P.S. Ice Climbers are more broken than anyone in the game. YET THEY'RE STILL IN BRAWL.

Okay, this argument alone is one gaping flaw. Ice Climbers are easily fixed, be it synchronization mechanics, or anything as major as the aptly named "freeze" glitch you so kindly posted.

The Ice Climber were (forgive the pun) cool characters, and, really, we all have to remember: it's the characters that are returning, not the mechanics.

P.P.S. I hear ya Feba. I'm really glad they're pumping up Kirby and Yoshi. They royally screwed them up in Melee.

I, too, hear Feba, but wasn't Yoshi also at the short end of the stick in Smash 64?

Yoshi is one of my favorite Nintendo charactors, and my favorite Mario charactor as a whole. I'd love to be able to play as him without being totally screwed in my recovery (hey, I main Pikachu, so I'm used to having a good recovery; spoiled, practically).

[Feba]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

I, too, hear Feba

Preach it, brah.

[Armando]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

Ok, I forgive you. And I'll apologize too. That "top tier whore" thing struck a chord, but I was probably a bit ruder than I should've been.

I've never appreciated people that feel that it's needed to put more restrictions on a game than it was created with for tournaments-- especially when they're official ones.

It's very much necessary. Hyrule Temple is absurdly broken, especially when you're Fox. And without banning that, ICs would always win because they will eventually grab and kill you. And then everyone would be ICs because it'd be the one guaranteed way to win. Fox has pseudo-infinite combos, but they're not banned, because 1) they require high technical skill and you'll eventually skip a beat and 2) you can still get out of them with some DI (directional influence; moving the joystick when you're being hit to change the trajectory.)

And yeah, ZS Samus is Sheik-like, but if you can't use her full time (and you can't control when you'll turn into her) then it's all in vain. And personally I do hope ZS Samus is playable without a Smash Ball even if the odds are stupidly low, because she's a cool/interesting/unique character. More character variety, when done right, increases game balance since it becomes harder for any given character to be good in every situation/match-up.

Also, the second thing is I loathe Brawl being compared to Melee: one of my biggest fears is that Brawl will turn out to be nothing more than a "Melee 2," rather than the "Smash Bros. 3" it's supposed to be.

What I meant is that the core game mechanics (shielding, rolling, wavedashing, shorthopping, DI, etc) should remain. They should expand upon them, but not change how the game plays on a fundamental level. I doubt it'll turn into a Melee 2 with the wonderful character variety, awesome stages, and FANTASTIC SINGLE POWER MODE () that Sakurai is giving us because he's such a great human being.

Heh. You got me on that, except Dr. Mario isn't exactly a prime candidate for returning, now, is he?

Nah, but my point is that them being the same person wasn't a good enough reason for them not to throw him into Melee. And yeah, I doubt he's coming back, very very much.

Okay, this argument alone is one gaping flaw. Ice Climbers are easily fixed, be it synchronization mechanics, or anything as major as the aptly named "freeze" glitch you so kindly posted.

The Ice Climber were (forgive the pun) cool characters, and, really, we all have to remember: it's the characters that are returning, not the mechanics.

But that can go both ways. Sheik can return and have her mechanics re-balanced. There are also simple fixes to simple Sheik, that don't even have to involve changing her radically (brokenness, after all, is relative to the other characters.)

I can't remember much how Yoshi was in 64 but Smash 64 was also grossly broken (Fox was even more absurd than in Melee since there was no kind of lag for landing from aerials, and Kirby and Pikachu were also crazy awesome.) And I don't think you're spoiled, having a good recovery is being Peach or Samus. Yoshi doesn't have a recovery XD Well, they're giving him one now and they're fixing Kirby's Up Smash so hurrays for game balance.

[Feba]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

It's very much necessary

I don't doubt that. I'm just saying I don't like it.

Like when TCG feel the need to ban cards they created, and such.

[Armando]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

That's true. But those broken stages can be fun to play with when you don't care who wins or loses. Sometimes me and my friends like to play Juggernaut in Hyrule Temple (3 vs 1, with handicaps.) Fun stuff.

Smash can be a party game or a serious fighter, if it can be both things then naturally some elements from one part will be inappropriate for the other.

EDIT: Here's a cool video that'll help you understand how desynching Ice Climbers works:[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=nU3NDDwt4M4[/youtube]Ice Climbers are fun stuff and very deadly.

[Feba]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

huh, never realized you could do that.

I hate ice climber NPCs though. Having to kill both of them is bullshit

I kinda wanna go play smash now, but I overwrote my own save for my cousin's a year or two back when I was a fuckwit, and now it just sucks the fun out of the game for me ;_;

[Armando]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

/comfort Feba. That really sucks. I at least have an Action Replay so if I accidentally lose my memory card I can still play (but the true reason I bought it was for the Debug mode to see attacks frame by frame and with their collision boxes on. But being able to play Break the Targets in teams is fun as hell too.)

[Feba]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

oh no, don't get me wrong, it's not the levels and characters, they had a level or two I didn't which is why I overwrote my save. It's because all of the trophies, achievements, and everything else has the wrong number, wrong date, wrong time, and so on, not to mention the fact that my cousins filled up most of the name slots with creative names like "fart" and "poop".

[Armando]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

Oh. Ok. That still sucks. I have a friend that's been using the same memory card since the day Melee was released. The total hours and KOs on it are absurd. He'd cry himself to sleep every night if he ever lost that save file, for sure.

[Kailea]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

people really care about stats like that, that only 10 people MAX might see?

*shrugs* ok......

Depending on how Sonic plays (heard he is fast, and hard to control) I might go with him, or Meta Knight, but my favorites will still be Peach and Kirby

[Feba]

Re: Sonic Confirmed for Brawl, Remaining Nerds Explode

people really care about stats like that, that only 10 people MAX might see?

It's not about the bragging rights, it's about the emotional attachment.

Sorta like how my keyboard is nearing it's second birthday, it's still very awesome and I still love it to pieces, but it is old. However, even though I have problems with it, and I want to try new things, I still don't replace it because of emotional attachment.