Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

Having actually hit 70 in WoW recently(Krelian, Human Paladin on The Venture Co), your basically in for the EXACT same grind that other MMO's like FFXI have, difference is they basically make you wait till 70 before you do any of it. For my Shockadin build, I have to earn around 50,000 more Honor Points for the 3 Veteran pieces then if my Arena Points still slowly come in at around 250 a week(only doing 2v2, friends might try 5v5 just for the better points) it'll take months before all my gear is set. Heroics are an option for a lot of the arena equipment, and as somebody has complained here I'm not guarenteed a drop rate at all. A Hunter friend of mine has run Heroic Underbog 30 times and the last boss has NOT dropped his epic pants yet. Not even gonna get into the whole epic flying mount grinding you'll have to do.

To sum it up; FFXI makes you work along the way, WoW gives you a free ride until 70 then throws all the work in your face.

[Telera]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I love that damned movie. Love.

The *only* MMO (full MMO, not counting others I enjoy like Monster Hunter or PSU) that I have played and still enjoy as much as I did at day one is LotR:O. And just from reading about you guys talking about WoW, aside from the quests-for-exp aspect, they don't even sound half as similar as the bandwagon-WoW bashers make them out to be. Oh, and the fact that you don't have to kneel to get mp back. Wow~ Woo, that makes or breaks a game for ya, boys. (Note I have not and likely will never play WoW and also don't give a damn what it's a 'clone' of, because I enjoy it and that's all that matters so if you're going to say it is anyway, kindly stfu before you do. Thanks.) At 40, even with that I have to stop between mobs sometimes still. Just not as long as the asinine amounts of 'downtime' in FFXI. And not everyone thinks that standing in place for X amount of hours to level is any more 'earning it' than reaping exp actually staying awake, interested, and in tune with the game world by travelling it or getting involved with the NPCs within it.

At the least it gets you into the story without making getting into the story a secondary, nigh on unrewarding experience that XI did. Yeah, yeah, rings, whatever. Access. But the long ass chains of stuff before that...eh. I just think it was implemented in the ass-backwards kind of way.

A former years-long WoW vet in my Kinship laughed for a minute solid when I told him people said LotR is a WoW clone. So have random people in /ooc and /regional when the topic came up nearer in to launch while I was pissing around on my captain. I am familiar with skill trees in Galaxies, but that doesn't even exist in LotR. Reminds me more of KotOR (X level, X skill, buy it, move on. No tree-ing.) and Oblivion/Morrowind in battle and/or quests and how they actually mean something.

Galaxies, had SoE not gutted it, would be the only other MMO I would even suggest to people to play these days. But they did, so I can't. All I can do is mourn its passing and assure you that LotR is the most fun and fulfillment I have found in an MMO since losing Galaxies.

I haven't tried WoW. I find it immature and typically internettish of people to bash a game just because it's the 'in thing' to do, when many of them haven't even played it. Then those who haven't played it extend 'WoW-clone' as a stigma on anything that might threaten their ideaology that just because you can put in hard work w/ a guaranteed drop as opposed to a iffy one, it's somehow less 'hard'. Whatever. Thinking like that is utterly laughable to me.

Personally haven't played WoW. Never leaving LotR unless it's gutted, too, but I have more faith in Turbine than I do in LA and SoE on that front. So I can't judge WoW. All I can say is if you get a free trial, try it out, can't hurt you.

[Murphie]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

Early morning was my favorite time. A guildmate and I would often team up at that hour and grind faction, or farm, or just do a few quests. It was good times.

[little ninja]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

WoW: Come for the hyped solo, stay for the same MMORPG endgame the other MMOs had. Except it has those whiney, annoying Counterstrike brats in it. And those pricks that would quit in Warcraft 3 just because they were losing.

If there isn't anyone whining or botching about something it's not a real MMO.

There's nothing wrong with WoW, I'm playing it right now.
Just, you know, disable all chat channels and whispers. And only play in the morning when noone else is on. Then 'maybe' you'll keep your sanity.

I used to play very late in the evening when it was all the little brats bedtime.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

There's nothing wrong with WoW, I'm playing it right now.

Just, you know, disable all chat channels and whispers. And only play in the morning when noone else is on. Then 'maybe' you'll keep your sanity.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

The ol' WoW Switcheroo is what did me in eventually. I loved the journey. Just hated the destination.

WoW: Come for the hyped solo, stay for the same MMORPG endgame the other MMOs had. Except it has those whiney, annoying Counterstrike brats in it. And those pricks that would quit in Warcraft 3 just because they were losing.

[Emperium]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

How do you continue to miss the point? People aren't there because spending hours pulling pointless kills is awesome fun, they're there for the epix. All progression is for more epic epix. There's nothing fun about WoW's endgame, and the people certainly aren't enjoyable.
What's so difficult about the bosses dropping something relevant to the party or raid? Why not reward actual effort? Oh yea, way to go party of Priest, Warrior, Rogue, Mage, and Warlock, here's something that enhances your Seal of the Crusader. OH WAIT, NONE OF YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY. DRINK SPRITE AND PLAY AGAIN.

I can tell from the way you are speaking that you never even did endgame content. 5 person content isn't endgame. Those dungeons don't mean anything, and weren't even what I was referencing. I was referencing 25/40 man raids where you aren't there to gear yourself, but to progress your guild. In 5 mans the whole point is to gear yourself, and I could see being upset that the sole reason you went (a gear upgrade) didn't drop. But, alas, that isn't what I was even talking about.

Most people do raid for fun and to gear up, the former more importantly. The people that raid just for gear burn out eventually when they aren't getting items as fast as they selfishly want. Token armor drops are common in all end-game dungeons now, almost completely eliminating items getting disenchanted or rotting due to the fact that one token benefits three different classes.

[little ninja]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

How do you continue to miss the point? People aren't there because spending hours pulling pointless kills is awesome fun, they're there for the epix. All progression is for more epic epix. There's nothing fun about WoW's endgame, and the people certainly aren't enjoyable.
What's so difficult about the bosses dropping something relevant to the party or raid? Why not reward actual effort? Oh yea, way to go party of Priest, Warrior, Rogue, Mage, and Warlock, here's something that enhances your Seal of the Crusader. OH WAIT, NONE OF YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY. DRINK SPRITE AND PLAY AGAIN.
I believe only the very, very last set(s) is token based. But again, the token is a drop and you wont be the only one lotting on it. At least if something for a Paladin dropped the Paladins had a better chance of getting it than a Warrior or Rogue.

FFXI is the same way. Same useless AF2 crap drops every Dyn that nobody wants or can use. The same thing goes for God drops. I got abjurations ill never use, weapons ill never use. All because nobody else wants it or can use it. Atleast in WoW you can sell it for a few good pieces of gold, or if your high enough disenchant it into some really expensive material.

[DakAttack]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

This is really all that different from FFXI how? Both games have the same flaw.

Yea, I don't think anybody can make the perfect end-game.

[Manatra]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

How do you continue to miss the point? People aren't there because spending hours pulling pointless kills is awesome fun, they're there for the epix. All progression is for more epic epix. There's nothing fun about WoW's endgame, and the people certainly aren't enjoyable.

Most people are in it for the fun, epics provide a reward, but if you don't find it enjoyable you will burn out quickly.

What's so difficult about the bosses dropping something relevant to the party or raid? Why not reward actual effort? Oh yea, way to go party of Priest, Warrior, Rogue, Mage, and Warlock, here's something that enhances your Seal of the Crusader. OH WAIT, NONE OF YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY. DRINK SPRITE AND PLAY AGAIN.
I believe only the very, very last set(s) is token based. But again, the token is a drop and you wont be the only one lotting on it. At least if something for a Paladin dropped the Paladins had a better chance of getting it than a Warrior or Rogue.

This is really all that different from FFXI how? Both games have the same flaw.

[DakAttack]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

Anybody who goes into a raid expecting to get loot for themselves is an idiot. You are there to progress your fellow guild members as well as yourself. People who get angry that they didn't get loot are too short-sighted to see the point of a raid. It's not just for them but for the whole.

How do you continue to miss the point? People aren't there because spending hours pulling pointless kills is awesome fun, they're there for the epix. All progression is for more epic epix. There's nothing fun about WoW's endgame, and the people certainly aren't enjoyable.

What's so difficult about the bosses dropping something relevant to the party or raid? Why not reward actual effort? Oh yea, way to go party of Priest, Warrior, Rogue, Mage, and Warlock, here's something that enhances your Seal of the Crusader. OH WAIT, NONE OF YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY. DRINK SPRITE AND PLAY AGAIN.

Also, most armor sets (WoW's version of AF) are token/quest based now, so it isn't random luck of the draw anymore.|

I believe only the very, very last set(s) is token based. But again, the token is a drop and you wont be the only one lotting on it. At least if something for a Paladin dropped the Paladins had a better chance of getting it than a Warrior or Rogue.

[Manatra]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

It was a poor comparison because you are comparing something that will never happen with someone that happens quite frequently.
A quest is usually designed to benefit one person, the person running the quest. Your quest for AF armor benefits you. You will never finish that quest and get a reward that doesn't benefit your job. Boss drops are designed to benefit any one of up to 40 people (in terms of WoW). Anybody who goes into a raid expecting to get loot for themselves is an idiot. You are there to progress your fellow guild members as well as yourself. People who get angry that they didn't get loot are too short-sighted to see the point of a raid. It's not just for them but for the whole.
I played WoW to 70 and did plenty of end-game content both pre and post expansion. I saw lots of items that dropped in raids and even regular dungeons that wasn't for me, and I didn't get angry. You are running those dungeons for the benefit of everyone in the group, not just yourself. I also saw lots of items drop that nobody had any benefit for, and they just rotted. That made me and the raid angry on numerous occasions, but we sucked it up and moved on to the next boss.
Back on topic, as someone who has played WoW quite a bit, I would recommend giving it a try. You can get a free trial of both the original and the expansion, and can get an idea of what it is like. Yes the initial leveling part is quite fun, you'll meet some cool people and some dickheads, moreso of the latter at those lower levels. The dungeons are pretty entertaining in the beginning, but understandably easy.
The real meat of the game doesn't start until around 40-50, and then at 60-70 you'll open up alot of interestingand challenging content, both endgame and not. Yes the game does become a gear grind at 70 where all you can do is either raid or PvP. But as long as you can devote a decent amount of time, or find a guild that can deal with a more casual schedule, endgame can be quite fun as long as you are playing with a group of cool people.

Also, most armor sets (WoW's version of AF) are token/quest based now, so it isn't random luck of the draw anymore.

I should maybe get back into WoW, but I barely have any time between school and work :|

[little ninja]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

So basically, it's Dynamis, amirite?

LMAO

[Emperium]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

That comparison wasn't terrible at all. Do you know what it would feel like being handed a different job's AF after all the work through the quest? Do you know what it feels like seeing a different job's equipment drop, a job that isn't even IN the party, time after time throughout the entire instance? They're pretty similar feelings.
I've seen people in every party who expected their items to drop, and they always get angry when it doesn't. Who wouldn't get angry? These guys have the equipment you need so you might actually have a chance to keep up with the people who are running raids, and there's an extremely small chance it might drop. It's not like you can just walk right up to the boss. You have to waste your time clearing trash pulls, all the while hoping your group doesn't break, until the boss.

It was a poor comparison because you are comparing something that will never happen with someone that happens quite frequently.

A quest is usually designed to benefit one person, the person running the quest. Your quest for AF armor benefits you. You will never finish that quest and get a reward that doesn't benefit your job. Boss drops are designed to benefit any one of up to 40 people (in terms of WoW). Anybody who goes into a raid expecting to get loot for themselves is an idiot. You are there to progress your fellow guild members as well as yourself. People who get angry that they didn't get loot are too short-sighted to see the point of a raid. It's not just for them but for the whole.

I played WoW to 70 and did plenty of end-game content both pre and post expansion. I saw lots of items that dropped in raids and even regular dungeons that wasn't for me, and I didn't get angry. You are running those dungeons for the benefit of everyone in the group, not just yourself. I also saw lots of items drop that nobody had any benefit for, and they just rotted. That made me and the raid angry on numerous occasions, but we sucked it up and moved on to the next boss.

Back on topic, as someone who has played WoW quite a bit, I would recommend giving it a try. You can get a free trial of both the original and the expansion, and can get an idea of what it is like. Yes the initial leveling part is quite fun, you'll meet some cool people and some dickheads, moreso of the latter at those lower levels. The dungeons are pretty entertaining in the beginning, but understandably easy.

The real meat of the game doesn't start until around 40-50, and then at 60-70 you'll open up alot of interestingand challenging content, both endgame and not. Yes the game does become a gear grind at 70 where all you can do is either raid or PvP. But as long as you can devote a decent amount of time, or find a guild that can deal with a more casual schedule, endgame can be quite fun as long as you are playing with a group of cool people.

[Feba]

Re: Ugh. Someone talk me out of it.

So basically, it's Dynamis, amirite?